Death & Dying ☠️⚰️⚱️

Join us as we discuss death & dying. Death is something we will all experience. It is important to prepare for how we want to leave this earth so those around us can heal.

 Comment here or join us LIVE and let us know your thoughts IRL, well kind of.

"I am really excited for this conversation, in a lot of ways I am still grapling with, what is my understanding through my experience and how to speak of it, how does it differ from my understanding as a child?" - Bonnie Violet

This season we push the depths of our relationship even further. Tackling the difficult conversations that we fear may separate us.

Tina, a conservative Christian woman and Bonnie Violet, a trans gender queer drag queen have an anti-cancel culture conversation. While many family members are choosing to no longer speak, we have chosen to sit at the table and engage in difficult conversation to find peace and restoration.

To learn more about Splintered Grace go to https://linktr.ee/aqueerchaplain

a queer chaplain 
Helping to lace one’s narrative with a spiritual thread.

Big shout out and Thank you to our monthly supporters. With your support we can continue to bring and upgrade Splintered Grace Podcast quality and reach.

To learn more or to join our Patreon go to patreon.com/bonnieviolet

a queer chaplain 
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Transcript

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[Music]

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will be [Music]

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hey everybody we're back thanks for joining us tonight on splintered grace my name is tina frank

0:45

and i am on air from in arizona and i am a mature christian woman

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about to have an amazing conversation with my beautiful co-host bonnie violet

0:55

hi everyone bonnie violet here so great to be here i'm a transgender queer spiritual drag artist and digital

1:01

chaplain and i am in san francisco this week i know every week i'm somewhere new i'm

1:07

like familiar yeah i'm in my old room that's awesome

1:13

yes awesome awesome spot [Laughter] oh haunting coming up on halloween

1:19

yes how's your week been you know it's been good um i got to do something fun today

1:26

i'm going to share i have a wonderful neighbor that lives across the street from me that and she's

1:31

lebanese and her and i cooked together today so um i got to see if i can say this

1:37

right we made lemony lebanese fatigue and we cooked it on a traditional sanji

1:43

it was so fun we had it we had a great time i didn't burn all of it did it taste good too i was gonna say it tastes good too

1:52

the horse tasted much better than mine but yeah it was it was edible and i actually got a few extra pieces to go in the freezer

1:58

so yeah so that was kind of fun that was probably the highlight of my week this week all right hi kayla how's it going uh

2:05

thanks so much to see you again saying i look amazing it's so glad you could join us

2:11

um yeah we picked a really um light topic this evening

2:17

um i uh i know it was like we were talking uh i mean last week when we did our

2:23

episode we talked about the lighter side of you know spirituality

2:29

um and then we said we were going to talk about prayer and meditation and then for whatever reason

2:34

in between now and then i got this feeling let's talk about death and dying um and then

2:40

i know right and then we made that decision and then uh like things happened

2:47

this week that was just kind of like whoa this is kind of heavy hey hey liz how's it going liz says hey from chicago

2:56

yay it's great to see liz yeah so

3:02

here we are with your heavy topic

3:07

it's really interesting i was um what kind of came up for me is i have a friend a family like a family member who

3:14

i call my sister who's like my chosen family member and i remember there was a

3:20

um i don't know i was just thinking like who would um deal with my stuff when i died or

3:28

if um you know like if something happened what what you know like what would happen and

3:34

um i thought of my sister marcus because marcus and i have talked about um you know he's asked me to be there

3:40

for him and um you know i i don't know there was a time when

3:46

yeah i don't know i just was kind of thinking oh that might be a good idea um and then thinking about it um it brought

3:51

up just a lot of different things you know because i am i you know i'm you know kind of in sure

3:58

that you know i'm transitioning i'm kind of in mid transition i've i'm bonnie

4:04

violet and i've been bonnie violet for like a year or so um to like myself and to like our listeners and stuff but um

4:11

my parents are like new on it you know my dad isn't really hip on it yet um and there's some of my family members

4:17

i haven't spoke to about it yet and so you know if i were to pass today or tomorrow heaven forbid you know

4:24

people would know me by different names and know me by different identities and for me i would want

4:31

them to be able to have whatever experience with me that they needed to have with me before i pass or you know like after i passed

4:38

i'm not i'm not that worried about it so i'd hate i'd hate for like i don't know like everything to become

4:44

bonnie violet um you know everything's bonnie violet you know and then my dad not be able to

4:50

you know just you know he hasn't gone there yet with me and so i wouldn't want him not to have the

4:56

experience that he needed to have um when it came to a funeral service or a memorial service and um i also didn't

5:03

want to see trans people think that i just got erased that my trans identity got erased when i died

5:10

and my family you know did something crazy with it or not because that happens a lot in our community where

5:15

family members just don't want to see it and they just kind of erase it when we die and i didn't want i didn't want

5:21

people in my community to also see that happen as well you know i just want people to understand

5:28

understand where i was coming from with it all and where where everyone was at especially right now if something

5:33

happened in a few years a little bit more you know developed or whatever it'd be a

5:39

different story yeah or even with i mean you're traveling a lot right now too so

5:44

the potential for there to be maybe a challenge might be more than if you were in one place

5:50

um do in life yeah and it's so wild because i haven't thought about death and dying personally

5:56

in a really long time even though when i was younger that was something that i thought about a lot with my hiv diagnosis and

6:04

different ailments that i've had over the years you know and but once i hit 30 i was like

6:09

i didn't even know i was going to live this long and so i haven't really thought too much about me really actually like

6:15

you know dying or whatever you know um aaron says this is definitely a topic

6:20

that needs to be discussed what was that tina i was just going to ask you what do you think triggered all those thoughts

6:28

are all the thoughts i guess you know i don't know because you know like

6:33

if the conversation would have happened you know it's like because the the idea i don't

6:39

i can't say there was it just came to my mind and i don't know if it was because my my sister and i are getting closer

6:46

marcus and i are like closer and becoming tighter and um there's times when we've maybe felt like i where i

6:52

maybe haven't felt like i would be able to ask that of him um but i feel like he's at a position

6:57

position in a time in which you know i could talk with him about that um and so

7:03

i think that's why it came up but then this week you know we've dealt with a lot of covid you know

7:09

i was um exposed to covid on last friday and so i've been quarantined

7:17

and doing testing and i wasn't feeling well and so then i was like really kind of

7:22

freaking out um and i hadn't really thought about i don't know you know i just hadn't really

7:28

thought about it but i just thought it was interesting that it came to mind and then these things started to

7:33

kind of unravel this week yeah so i mean i i don't know what is

7:39

what would a next step be i mean is that something that you would have to make sure you planned yourself

7:45

is that something you have to make sure you had really tight guidelines on how i mean i don't what would you think the next thing would be

7:51

i have no idea yeah i mean i think a big part and you know i think all people like all of us should have

7:57

kind of like think about this because you and i were talking about this before the show that yeah you know no matter

8:03

how close a family is or a group of people are when somebody passes and grief happens

8:10

you know it can be really easy for conflict or difficult um

8:16

conversations or whatever to really kind of erupt um and so for me i'd really be wanting

8:21

to try to just hopefully mitigate the likelihood of that happening

8:27

yeah i think that's a that's a good plan yeah i've never we've done um my husband and i have done

8:34

all the traditional things uh you know where we have more of a traditional situation

8:40

for lack of a better word um so yeah so i'm hoping that we've done everything right but there's so much to

8:46

understand just in the basics on how to set things up so that people don't have to worry about it

8:52

um to have different um i don't know if i would say if you had a

8:58

legal name change i think it would all be documented under a legal name change but i don't but i

9:04

don't know i and i don't and like you said i don't know how that would affect the different people that you have

9:10

around you in your life and yeah i have to be honest i hadn't thought about honoring those folks after i was

9:17

gone so man that's that's an amazing that's just an amazing kind

9:22

thought that i had never had yeah well i think as queer folks we often

9:28

i don't know i've just i've dealt one with a lot of my friends have passed over the years

9:33

from the lgbtq community and i've had all the experiences you know my very

9:39

very close friend passed a suicide and as soon as he as soon as that happened his parents like

9:45

took his body took him away buried him in a completely different state didn't let his fiancee

9:52

he actually passed the night of his wedding and they basically just took

9:57

took him away didn't let anybody come to it buried him you know somewhere else and just kind of

10:02

erased and pretended like all that stuff didn't happen and there's plenty of trans folks

10:07

that you know they live their life as a woman but then they die and their family

10:13

puts them back in kind of man clothes and man name and totally erases the life

10:18

and the life the identity that they've been living in for a long time and that's just such a

10:23

you know a devastating um experience and i also know if that were to happen in my

10:29

situation i don't know that it would necessarily have been an intentional and because i'm you know i don't have a

10:36

spouse i don't have children you know um and to some degree i would i guess i

10:41

would fall on you know my parents responsibility unless i had you know somebody else kind of set up for that

10:48

and so yeah yeah really just kind of been thinking about you know maybe collaborative

10:54

collaboratively you know how to make that up you know how much i should have really put together and i know this kind of seems

11:00

morbid yeah well it's necessary though i think i just really think it's necessary

11:06

yeah i look at both of us and i think well gosh we're all so young to be talking but i think it's a

11:12

responsibility that we have here exactly yeah well and it's like you know i had a friend here who passed of covid who was

11:19

not that old and another friend of a friend who's passed have coveted again that was like 40 and so it's like we all

11:26

you know death happens um oftentimes unexpected um and age

11:33

doesn't necessarily always you know protect you from right from death or dying but i think a lot of times we just

11:40

don't we don't think about it and we don't plan for it and and we've just dealt with so much um

11:47

disrupted family over the years when because we've dealt with a lot of death in particular on my father's side and it's

11:54

caused a lot of disruption with who's gonna get the kids and upset about who got it and who didn't

12:00

and you know everybody's wanting to do the best and everybody's just wanting to have the experience they need to show up

12:07

for their loved one the best they can and sometimes it just doesn't

12:12

line up you know yeah you're right kayla says as we get older i think we

12:18

think about it more plus with covet people are are dropping around us yeah i

12:24

think you're right as we get older i know i think about it more than i did and think about more about the legacy

12:29

that i want to leave behind for my children and my grandchildren you know so i'm sure you have those same

12:34

things what kind of a legacy we all want to leave behind yeah it's it's interesting because i thought about

12:40

it more when i was younger you know yeah because i mean i had my funeral and everything planned out i

12:47

mean i remember when me and my ex-husband got married when travis and i were getting married um you know at that

12:53

time my dad wasn't hip on our marriage he wasn't showing up for it um i was die i was dealing with a platelet disorder

12:59

that was pretty scary um you know i was taking treatments we didn't know what would happen we didn't know

13:05

you know we just didn't know if we we didn't know how much time i would live we just didn't know what was happening and i remember having to sit down with

13:11

my mom and my dad and my soon-to-be husband and talk about like what would you know what would my

13:18

what would we do you know prior to that we'd always talked about i'd always thought i would just be buried um and

13:24

i'd be buried in a plot next to my family you know there and wendell but then when i was about to be married

13:30

and have a husband and live a hundred miles away from my parents i was kind of like oh what do i need to

13:36

do and then we decided to like you know cremate me and have

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you know half my feet with my family and

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i don't know what people heard or didn't hear are you there tina yep i'm here i didn't

13:57

hear much but um i kind of got the you didn't have it yeah yeah yeah yeah it was cremated and

14:03

there would be ashes on both sides of the family right yeah yeah i don't think that's a bad solution

14:12

for sure yeah and now it's like but that was years ago you know that was over a decade i don't know over a decade

14:18

ago or so you know and so and we haven't really talked about it since then so we can't really go back to that

14:25

that mode of my ex-husband getting my ashes yeah that might not fare well

14:32

so yeah so it sounds like you're back to the thinking about that and how you have a new thoughts about it now

14:38

than you had back then you know i mean for me around

14:44

i'm less and less concerned about an experience for me um i'm really just you know i just know

14:51

how it is to be on the other side of death and dying and the last thing i want to do is make things any more

14:57

difficult um for anyone that's going to be left behind and so yeah i want folks

15:03

to be able to have the experience with my passing that they need to have in order to hopefully

15:09

you know um get over it and live their life um yeah or at least not cause you know

15:15

um any sort of drama um amongst uh family members or friends or loved ones

15:22

so you think that'll be something that you plan your on your own or you designate someone

15:28

um i mean it's yeah i mean it's something i've just been kind of thinking about um

15:34

a part of me feels like yeah it feels it feels interesting not

15:41

to have my like say my parents be that um but then it kind of feels like a lot to ask of a parent to

15:49

handle all that for a child as well um so i don't know but i also want to

15:56

ensure that um my family's uh

16:01

wishes to an extent are also you know um honored

16:07

yeah so i think it'd probably if possible have some sort of a a team situation which is potentially

16:15

maybe problematic but um and so i think like the

16:21

probably like the best thing to do for that then is to like very clearly state

16:27

um what it is that i want and how i want things to be said or not said or

16:32

celebrated instead of kind of leaving it to folks to kind of like figure it out you

16:38

know yeah i i think that's kind of along the lines that i believe and think as well

16:45

um i want to make sure that you know in my passing that the people around me aren't devastated

16:51

um i didn't worry about so much honoring how they uh said goodbye to me that wasn't in my mind but i did

16:58

think about all the potential for chaos or hurt or

17:05

frustration so i i feel like if i plan all that myself then nobody can be offended right and nobody can be

17:13

upset because my sister didn't do this or my you know sister didn't do that or my

17:20

step-dad didn't do that or whatever so um i'm kind of along the lines of you i

17:25

feel like i maybe need to put that together and have that ready to go and i'm just if you really must do this

17:31

then this is what i want right and if they want to be mad at somebody be mad at me yeah yeah just be mad at me

17:38

because i did all the planning and this is how it is so yeah easier said than done though because

17:43

you're right it's kind of a hard topic and to think about yourself as not being there it and yeah it's tough

17:52

uh kayla says i have a morbid sense of humor i was i was at a party that celeb

17:58

i was you know a party that celebrates my life i want to be cremated and i want them to

18:04

play ding dong the witches dead so basically you want there to be a party yeah yeah

18:10

i definitely want that element and you know like growing up um that's i mean i remember like when my nephew wyatt died

18:18

um that was a time that you know my my family's my family they kind of throw a party and

18:25

celebrate somebody's life we're not really religious people they're not really religious people you know so there there is some

18:32

tradition but they're not in the like the same ways right and then you know wyatt's grandma and

18:38

mom's side was were like mormons um and they have a different way of

18:43

kind of um approaching exactly and it was really kind of magical to see

18:50

um how i think you know i think my parents were able and my side of the family was able

18:56

to experience some of what you know my brother's wife's family

19:02

does and i think they were able to gain something from that experience and vice versa i think that

19:08

they were able to come to the party or the celebration of life and um i think and there was also a lot of like similar

19:15

things happening um between the two i got to be in the middle of it so it was like

19:21

really easy to see kind of how everything was was forming you know yeah yeah it's not funny sometimes when

19:28

things like this happen we realize that a lot of times we're not as different as we always thought we were

19:34

and so you know just two two seemingly extremes we're able to not only

19:39

all celebrate this young man's life but all be able to learn and grow and do it together as different as they are

19:47

so yeah that's awesome yeah yeah i remember one thing that they had done the same was like the the balloon the

19:54

decision to like let balloons go and the amount of balloons i think i think he had lived 99 days or

20:02

something like that and so i think they had like a balloon for every day that he lived or something like that

20:08

wow that's awesome i can't remember it's been a few years now yeah it's been a few years

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yeah wow lots of things to consider

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right i got all these things playing in my head now [Music]

20:26

kayla says when my great grandfather died we did a graveside funeral and there was no wick we gathered at my

20:32

great-grandmother's and supported her we went through photo albums and instead of it being a cry fest it was more of a

20:38

life celebration that's awesome that's awesome and i believe that photographs is one of

20:44

the most important things we can leave behind because i feel like when we take pictures we take pictures of things that

20:49

we enjoy or things that are important to us or things that we love so yeah photo albums are awesome so

20:56

caleb that sounds like an amazing way to celebrate someone's life i think the the other aspect of like

21:03

thinking about like the um you know like the say the cremation or the body or you

21:08

know the pallbearers or the music you know all those sorts of details it's also i think there's also the element of

21:15

like dnrs or like the medical aspect of things like what if you find yourself on

21:21

a ventilator or on a machine and how do you feel about that and then your family has to kind of make that decision of

21:28

whether to have you on there or not have you on there or you know that really puts people in some

21:34

you know difficult situations yeah it sure does it sure does and i think those are all

21:40

decisions that if we love our families that we can make those decisions ahead of time yeah yeah

21:45

yeah i think that's a good plan to do that aaron says

21:51

aaron says i really can understand and relate to what you are saying if something was to happen to me

21:57

i would want to greet i would want others to grieve in whatever way they need if they need to grieve me as my

22:03

previous self okay whatever is most helpful to them if they want to grieve for me as my

22:09

present true self then i hope they can grieve in that way too when we die the way others grieve is more about what

22:16

they need than what i might want that's true that's true yeah

22:22

i feel that way too yeah i think our goal here is just to keep those people that love us from

22:28

from arguing with one another and stealing the moment from both both parties or

22:34

however many people there are so yeah yeah well and i've had um situations and

22:41

funeral services you know i don't know i think i've been to some funeral services where um

22:48

you know people approach it differently you know i think sometimes you'll have pastors who are more preachy

22:54

um i've you know i've been in situations where um like i don't know somebody who had

23:00

passed who was like once mormon and then was killed in a car accident like i don't know it's just like i feel

23:06

like sometimes there's some things said that don't quite line up or you know what i mean or

23:11

kind of judgmental or whatever so i think there's also some thought into to that aspect too is who's

23:18

going to be officiating what's going to be said or not said right right

23:24

um kayla says wow you all have opened my eyes about this and made me think of a

23:29

different perspective i think that was part of our our thought

23:35

process to bring up some things that maybe we ourselves hadn't considered until we

23:40

talked and maybe that other people hadn't considered as well yeah and i there are resources out there

23:46

for folks you know uh you know a lot of times going if you are involved with the church or religious community you know

23:53

you can go to your pastor you can kind of i think talk about those sorts of things absolutely um and then also just

23:59

like your medical doctor as far as getting like a dnr which is like a do not resuscitate order

24:05

or any of the kind of medical wants or desires that you'd have if you were not in a position to make that

24:11

decision for yourself a lot of those things can you know you can just start the process

24:16

um you know now yeah yeah have a plan i'm i'm all for

24:22

having a plan yeah so my so like if if something

24:27

happens between now and the time i get to write everything down i think i made myself somewhat clear

24:36

and what i what i would like but also there's so much more detail you know there's a lot i said but there's a lot i

24:42

didn't say right yeah it's typical once you get going you're like oh i hadn't considered this i hadn't considered this

24:47

i didn't know this was important so yeah i think going through that process i'm a little older than you

24:54

and i have gone through the process of setting up a will i'm setting up a trust and doing some of

24:59

those things for my family um and so there was a lot of things when

25:04

the questionnaire that we filled out and thank goodness for a questionnaire to prompt these thoughts because i would never have thought of

25:10

half of this stuff and it just really gave my husband and i a lot of great

25:16

talking points and understanding and i would say the whole process actually kind of gave us a better understanding

25:22

of who we were um maybe if there was a gray area that presented itself that we would be able to make the best choice based on our

25:30

one another's desires we we felt more confident in that so so yeah i think this is a good

25:37

topic and i encourage you guys to ask some of those questions or involve someone else who can ask you some of

25:42

those questions aaron was saying i do worry though about arguing among people

25:47

about how to how to see me especially since currently i haven't had a legal name

25:54

change and kayla says that sounds like a nudge-nudge hint auntie lol

26:03

yes so yeah yeah i remember i yeah i don't know

26:09

death death is kind of weird and the things that we do sometimes is

26:15

weird there's some like weird traditions i remember my um when my ex-lover

26:21

passed away um and i guess trigger warning for folks but um he passed away to suicide

26:29

and it was really interesting his mother had us like um

26:34

kind of be with him while he was on the roof and making the decision like

26:40

yeah it was really like intense and it was kind of like you know but it was something that i think was really important for her

26:46

um to express you know as part of the process because she she said we were there with him and

26:52

he jumped but he went up you know and so it was a way of it was a way of rewriting

26:57

the ending that he you know he went up to heaven he didn't you know go down you

27:03

know he just went up yeah and so i felt like that was a unexpected um

27:08

but also kind of a nice way um to to go about it and oftentimes when

27:14

people pass of suicide or drug overdose or certain things like that people just don't want to they don't want to be

27:20

honest about it they don't want to talk about it for whatever reason there's a lot of stigma around that way

27:25

of passing wow

27:31

i had no idea yeah i know right i mean in my community it's

27:37

just i've had to deal with it a lot i've buried so many friends and loved ones

27:43

um over the last few years you know were getting hiv when i was young and living and working in hiv and aids and all that

27:49

i always thought that that's where i was going to experience a lot of the death and dying and

27:55

i've been experienced more death and dying in the form of overdose and suicide

28:02

in my in my friend group like literally like more than you know

28:09

the fingers on my hands maybe my fingers and my toes so um it's something that's definitely um

28:16

plagued i think our community in a lot of ways wow i'm so sorry to hear that

28:23

i you know we've i've haven't lost i mean i've lost my my dad which was very significant for me but

28:29

real close i haven't since covered though i've just even in the last 30 days i've had a lot of

28:36

a lot of losses some really close to home some a little further but people that

28:42

man we were just doing life together so it's been pretty pretty devastating and so i think having a plan or having

28:50

these conversations about putting together a plan i think is important because like you said before

28:56

um death has no age limit or number so we have to be aware

29:02

and prepared as much as we can huh yeah yeah and you're right it's not about us at that

29:08

point and we do this more for the people that we love versus ourselves

29:14

so yeah yeah i know we were talking about death and dying we were kind of talking about the

29:20

semantics of uh like you know what to do or whatever but also i think part of that um

29:29

uh you know is also like i guess what happens after we die and kayla says yes with kovid there is

29:35

no rhyme or reason yeah there really isn't yeah

29:44

so yeah so what happens after after we pass is that what you were talking about yeah i mean i feel like

29:50

that's the next part right i think that's the next thing that we all

29:55

um think or consider or or assume uh talk about so yeah

30:02

so there's a lot of policies there's seven right yep i believe that there is heaven

30:08

and that uh to be uh dead in the body is to be alive in the spirit

30:17

the spirit just goes goes down yep it goes to heaven and uh we spend

30:23

eternity with with jesus and with all those people who've gone before us

30:28

and those who are going to come after us so yeah so is that everybody who's lived and died

30:36

um not everybody who's lived and died everyone who has accepted jesus as their lord and

30:42

savior and you know believe that there's a heaven some people i don't think believe that

30:48

there is a heaven so but you know we won't know until we

30:53

know right yes i believe that's the the truth

30:58

it brings me a lot of peace um to know that if something happens to me here that i'll be alive in eternity

31:05

and i pray that uh the people that i love are gonna be there with me yeah

31:10

so if like if somebody just didn't understand or get heaven or whatever or believe in it

31:17

then they wouldn't get to go to heaven i think there's a difference between not

31:23

knowing or not understanding and choosing not to believe so if someone just chooses not to

31:29

believe then i think there's a possibility that they won't be in heaven i never

31:34

try to assume that i know anyone's heart or assume that i know that i know everything

31:41

i know what i read in my bible and i know what i believe to be true but

31:47

until i've actually passed i won't know um but i believe it to be true based on

31:53

the my bible that that too yeah

31:58

kayla asks tina do you think we will know the people in heaven like we knew them on earth or do you think we won't

32:05

recognize each other ah that's a great question um you know i think i think we will i

32:11

think we'll recognize and i think we'll know one another but i think we're not we're not going to have an earthly body

32:18

the bible says that we're going to have a heavenly body um and a heavenly body that has no

32:24

blemish that has no sickness no disease no scars

32:30

no things like that so i think we will i think it'll be that spirit that recognizes spirit the bible talks about

32:36

the deep recognizing the deep and i think that's that's what we'll recognize and understand uh with one another

32:44

and how do you how do do you just forget then the people who don't make it

32:50

or how do how does i just feel like that would be such a loss i don't i don't know how

32:56

i would experience that in heaven yeah see i don't i don't know and and that i'm aware of there's and i don't

33:03

know everything about the bible that i'm aware of it doesn't go into detail about that so i don't know but i like to think

33:08

that my pops um [Music] that i'll know him that that he knows me

33:13

i think that i like to think that he's looking down on me and uh when i'm looking at his pictures and my my heart smiles or in those

33:20

moments when i just need to know that my dad's listening i feel like

33:25

i feel like there's a possibility that he is so i don't know the bible that i'm aware of

33:31

um again i don't have the bible memorized or know everything about it but i have not

33:36

found anything that says that to be the truth that was always the thing that i struggled with is this idea of like i

33:42

don't want to be in heaven and how can i be in heaven if the people i love aren't there i know i say that a

33:48

lot but um aaron says i think ultimately no one will really know what happens until they pass

33:54

that's true that's true thank you kayla says the bible says there are no

33:59

tears in heaven so we might not remember those who are not there with us

34:04

that's a possibility so and she says i agree i'm not sure what

34:11

on but yeah i think she just agrees that we we may not know until we get there

34:18

but i don't think there's any harm in um finding comfort and thinking that my papa can see me

34:24

once in a while when i need him too yeah not at all so

34:30

um bob kaiser said i would i would what would you cry in heaven

34:35

[Laughter] i'm not sure maybe bobble will add more

34:40

to that maybe but it could be just like delayed

34:48

so what do you think about life after death or or is there life after death or is there heaven

34:55

yeah bob kaiser said um he'd be sad if people i loved didn't make it

35:00

especially for eternity yeah yeah that was always just something

35:07

i really wandered was like i don't know how i could be okay and in in some of the

35:13

understandings of of the bible the idea that not everyone's going to make it or you have

35:19

to do certain things in order to get there then there's probably the likelihood that people are going to fall short i guess

35:26

i don't have that necessarily i don't have i don't see things that way now but i know that as i was learning about

35:33

heaven and reading the bible and coming to understand things when i was younger that was something i i really grappled

35:38

with the idea that like that good people or people i loved or cared about

35:45

weren't going to make it and somehow i was for some reason or do you know what i mean

35:51

yeah well you know the role of a christian is to share the

35:57

gospel and that's to share that the truth of who jesus christ is

36:02

and that he died for our sins and that because if we believe in him that not

36:07

only can we have a life worth here that's going to have purpose and and

36:15

um that's the word i'm looking for hope and uniqueness i mean all those

36:20

things are potential to us but then we can go on into eternity um i just that's part of our our faith step and

36:27

walk sometimes here when things get crazy like when we were all in covet and trying to figure

36:33

stuff out and our life is changing so much um i was it was comfort to me to realize

36:38

you know what this isn't going to be here in eternity and

36:43

and i can i can manage this for the moment and i can find peace in knowing that one i'm not alone because i could

36:50

feel the holy spirit we talked about that last week in me to find peace and comfort and a space to move forward and if the worst

36:58

happened then i would have eternity to look forward to

37:03

bob says actually not sure i would want to go if those i love weren't there hmm great conversation

37:08

and i think for me too it's like i'm not sure um what happens once we pass

37:14

i barely know what's going to happen tomorrow i barely understand today so i feel like a lot of what i try to do

37:21

is just do my best today to experience grace to experience god to be the hands and feet

37:27

and you know what i mean like to do the things of heaven if you will today in the now

37:34

as best i can um and you know what happens after this i'm not entirely sure

37:41

um but um i think i'll be all good either way

37:47

if we if we talk about a heaven what about hell do you guys do you think there's going to be a hell

37:54

i i think the thing i don't know i think if there is a heaven why wouldn't there be a hell

38:00

um but i have um my biggest quandary is like the idea of access to heaven like

38:07

that there's some only like certain people are allowed into heaven

38:12

i don't believe everyone's allowed to yeah we just have to choose it

38:19

right but why would we yeah i don't i guess part of it would be why would we choose anything different unless we

38:25

didn't know right and and yeah and i think there's grace for that

38:30

um it's when it's when people know and say no that's fine i'd rather do this or rather

38:36

um you know do whatever it is that that they shouldn't be doing and and not receive

38:43

and and i think i just feel like god has forgiveness for

38:49

that like i feel like god understands why i do what i do and if he if he didn't if it wasn't great

38:56

um i mean i don't you know what i mean like if it was something that god didn't want to have me do that i think he would understand why i

39:03

did it um even if it was like you know misguided or

39:09

or whatever you know what i mean um so i don't know i just you just have to be willing to ask

39:14

forgiveness and and so there that's the that's the peace a lot of people don't want to ask forgiveness

39:20

um people don't want to um realize that they're they're

39:26

that we all live in sin you know i'm i'm a sinner i know you and i've talked about you don't like that word

39:32

um but as we move even someone who's is saved and loves jesus and knows they're a sinner i screw it up

39:38

a lot um but i still have to repent and and ask for forgiveness and you're

39:44

right there's always grace there for me there's always grace there for me there's always an another open door for

39:49

me another opportunity to start over another opportunity to shift there always is but i think if we forget that

39:56

part of repentance so that there can be acceptance and regained significance and regained you know security then i think

40:04

we can be lost in all that so that's that's what that is but it's available

40:09

to everybody right and i get i i get and understand like what you're saying and um i don't

40:14

necessarily hate the word center or sin you know i think that it has its place and understanding um i

40:22

think i just sometimes don't agree with what one person you know it's an individual thing what takes me away from

40:28

god might not take you away from god or vice versa and so that's when it's the

40:34

thing i get a little um so yeah we all have the ability to send to me is to fall short right

40:40

so we all have the ability to fall short um in the eyes of god in the eyes of our

40:45

fellows in the eyes of ourself um and we could repent for that right we acknowledge that we we did this harm

40:53

we did this thing that that was not our best

40:58

um and we can acknowledge it and and move on whether we acknowledge it to god whether we acknowledge it to our

41:04

community and god you know i mean i think there's a lot of um

41:09

so i think there's a lot of ways that people do it even if it's not done in in a church with the bible

41:15

oh yeah you know what i mean yeah yeah as long as you have repentance

41:20

before the lord all the rest of that stuff's optional and it doesn't have to be done in the church and i don't have to stand up and tell everybody at my

41:26

church all the horrible things i've done thank god because i would have been doomed a long time ago

41:32

yeah yeah kayla had mentioned this a little bit earlier but uh she said from working with survivors some of them

41:38

believe that we are in hell on earth but i think the bible gives us a different idea of what hell is

41:45

i agree with you kayla it sure does yeah i'm uh

41:50

i'm getting ready to i'm speaking on a panel tomorrow for the the nationals it's like the national

41:57

society of um domestic violence sexual assault and

42:03

mental health and one of the things that they're talking about was um

42:09

was how how faith can be used to help with trauma healing

42:14

um and how does one access god how does one access spirituality in a way that

42:19

can help them heal their trauma um which seems like a no-brainer like right you go to god for healing you go to jesus

42:26

for healing you go to church for healing however oftentimes those are the places

42:31

that have harmed us right and our ideas or our understanding of god or our theology or whatever doesn't allow us to

42:39

believe that um god does that for us or some sort you know what i mean like and

42:44

so i think i think part of it is being able to when we're hurt and we're harmed it's

42:51

difficult for us sometimes i think to to open up and be vulnerable in order to heal

42:59

um and so we're kind of yeah that's kind of what i'm saying sorry um it's all good i i get it

43:07

i i um [Music] i just wanted to say we got to remember just like you and i figured out

43:13

um the church is not god the church is just a group of people right all trying to

43:20

pursue their best hopefully um under the in community

43:25

chasing after god but we're definitely definitely not perfect and we're definitely definitely going to screw it

43:31

up so we have to put that in perspective the hard part though is when we go to a

43:36

church with an expectation of what we think the church should be or how it should be or

43:42

what it should look like and they fall short or they even um are aggressive towards us in a negative

43:48

way it's hard not to see that as god's reaction to us and but that's not god's reaction to us

43:55

that's the reaction of religion and there's a big difference between a relationship with god and a religious

44:02

body and although they can interact to a point the relationship with god needs to trump

44:08

the religion and that's what we see all through all through the bible and it doesn't always happen and that's why where there's

44:15

grace and that's why like he said we have to push forward and try to recover and

44:20

learn to trust god and not the actual religion indeed yep because i should know i'm

44:27

going to screw it up again just saying i'm sorry albert right sheila is asking how can i share this

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post um you should be able to just click share in the top or left of the screen

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it does appear like you're on facebook um so if you're on facebook youtube twitch um you should be able to

44:47

just click a share button you can also um you know put at so and so if you're wanting to tag somebody

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that's the way you can let them know about this as well we also do have this podcast we have

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this on podcast format um so we do do this live and we do love having a live audience so that people can interact

45:06

with us like we had a lot of great um participation today um but you can also

45:11

listen to our previous um episodes um you know on uh podcast um at

45:17

splinteredgrace wherever you listen to podcasts um so hopefully you figured out a way um

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to share this post um and if you end up not uh feel free to direct message us

45:29

and we'll try to connect with you to let you know how you can do that um but we have reached the um

45:36

15 or the 45 minute uh time frame that we that we're trying to stay in any more

45:43

um so would you like to take us out tina sure i'll do my best so

45:48

you guys thanks for joining us this was a hard topic for us we almost bailed out right at the last minute so

45:55

we're glad i'm glad we didn't and thank you guys for all of your feedback your questions

46:00

i hope we had something to offer that's helpful to you and if you want to continue the conversation feel free to

46:05

reach out to us directly we're happy to to do that if you want to talk more we can go again next week and go a little

46:11

deeper and have a broader conversation if you'd like to do that but until then you guys have a fabulous week thanks for

46:18

joining us and it is my pleasure um to be able to be a part of this amazing podcast

46:24

yes and join us next week at 5 30 p.m pacific standard time uh wherever you're

46:30

watching us now if you're watching us live um maybe we'll do prayer and meditation

46:35

next week maybe yeah let's we're gonna we promised that last week but maybe we can do it this

46:41

next week we'll do prayer and meditation meta medication meditation meditation yeah

46:48

all right well take care everyone have a great week and talk to you soon

46:54

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