Angels & Demons & Spirits, OH MY! 👼🏼😈👻😱

Join us as we discuss the spirit realm, our experience and understanding. What's your experience and understanding? Comment here or join us LIVE and let us know your thoughts IRL, well kind of.

"I am really excited for this conversation, in a lot of ways I am still grapling with, what is my understanding through my experience and how to speak of it, how does it differ from my understanding as a child?" - Bonnie Violet

This season we push the depths of our relationship even further. Tackling the difficult conversations that we fear may separate us.

Tina, a conservative christian woman and Bonnie Violet, a trans gender queer drag queen have an anti-cancel culture conversation. While many family members are choosing to no longer speak, we have chosen to sit at the table and engage in difficult conversation to find peace and restoration.

To learn more about Splintered Grace go to https://linktr.ee/aqueerchaplain

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Transcript

[Music] is [Music]

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[Music]

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hey everybody welcome to splintered grace i'm tina frank and i'm a mature christian

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conservative here to have a conversation with my beautiful co-host hi everyone so glad you could join us

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i'm bonnie violet i'm a transgender queer spiritual drag artist and a digital chaplain

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and yeah like over here

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awesome how was your week my week's been pretty good um my yeah it's been like i feel like just

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one thing after after the other i'm still in the same place i was last week which is cute my last night here i am in my little

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polka dots i love it is a new a new dress i got that i

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wore uh last night for drag bingo and got my nails done so so fun there's been

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a few changes i guess since last week how about you awesome um oh i'm in a new place also

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that is i guess new for me i know you're repeating a second place but for me i'm

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with my cousin in chandler arizona um just hanging out and helping her through

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some um just some some time together you know she's had a surgery this week and so i'm

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just here to help her out and i think i'm having more fun than than we are working but hey don't tell anybody

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right right that's good that's good you should be like yeah yeah so cool it's been it's been a great

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week pretty uneventful i kind of like it like that sometimes yeah well we have a really big topic

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today i think i i've been um you know i've like i feel like i've been more unsure of what we

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should talk about the last couple weeks but like this week i was really excited thinking about

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um our topic which is angels and demons and spirits oh my

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god we should have practiced that no just kidding yeah

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well we're like like trying to talk about like i've been doing these little gimmicky kind of uh titles and so this

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went right along with us talking about like kind of i mean this first kind of came up for us when we were talking about

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evil yeah and uh what what our thoughts were on evil so um i'm excited for our topic and

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for folks who have not been with us before um we are live on facebook youtube or

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twitch at the moment uh we love for folks interact with us ask questions leave comments for us we'll engage with

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you as much as we can if you are with us live if you're listening to us after the fact either way we'd love to hear from

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you get your comments that sort of stuff as well we also could be listened to on a podcast wherever you

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listen to podcasts at splintered grace now that we got that all done right yeah we'll say wow our commercial's getting

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longer and longer

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so back to evil well you know this is an interesting topic for us because when we were just

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having a just a conversation uh we we enjoy talking and i'm very excited to

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hear about what bonnie's doing as he travels around and uh i we were just i asked i think this is how this started

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we can correct me if i'm wrong um about the spirituality and

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and the presence of evil and the presence of light and and we had a really great conversation about that

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so we thought we'd share some of that with you guys this week and we would love to hear your guys's input um we had

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a very interesting conversation that i don't think we quite finished because i think there's some other things that we can still talk about or this may be one

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of those um ongoing conversations that we have but we determine that we have a

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different idea of some of these things for me i do believe that there is good and evil

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and i do believe that we can interact on either side of that on a day-to-day basis so it's kind of a nutshell before

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we break in there how about you bonnie yeah i mean i think that there's probably yeah i like i shared i'm gonna

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have a hard time with the idea of evil and especially like pure evil um maybe i can get behind the idea of

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having like um evil ish kind of like you know like um i

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don't know if evil was like a barometer or a scale like maybe people could have

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like do evil things or things that have evil that are evil but um i think for me i have a hard time i

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feel like evil is like with evil there's a deliberate and intentional um

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uh like i guess intent like you know like to to do wrong

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i guess for lack of a better way um i was talking with um a friend earlier and he

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was saying that evil is like um not without god like where there is no

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god right where there is no or where god is not um

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what's your thought on that well that's interesting well um i think that's a very interesting thought and something i'll

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consider but i feel like i can still have evil moments in my life i can i can be influenced by by evil

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thoughts evil desires even sometimes respond with an action

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that's that's evil or not pleasing and i don't know if if evil and demon are

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interchangeable but i think potentially you know we have all these i always picture the little devil

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in the little angel that we grew that i grew up with always seen on the right the left-hand shoulder but i think every

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time i make a determination on how i respond with somebody i'm choosing between good and evil

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especially if it's something that i can do a negative or a positive so so so

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in that and i know that i'm a i'm a christian i know that god lives in me so those evil thoughts still

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come up out of me so i think that would be my only experience that i would think maybe

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be a challenge for me to receive that completely and so do you feel like evil is something that like you choose or that's

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like that you like like it's a choice or do you feel like it's like in the sense of

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like almost like i'm going to choose say this evil thing versus this good thing

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um or is there a way that there's some sort of spirit or energy or whatever that can kind of influence

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that evil aspect or that evil coming out of you or you know things

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like that you know what i mean yeah yeah i think there's both actually i think that the more i entertain

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those evil thoughts or those evil habits or things i think that becomes more of

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who i am and it gives opportunity to have more and more evil or or demonic presence or what that

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what that might look like i i think to us and it's when we don't allow that that we we that we hinder that

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um that i think we're at our at our best uh but none of us are perfect so we all

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have those things but we do get to choose and i was i think i've shared this before but i think one of our

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greatest superpowers is as as humans is our ability to choose you know we get to choose everything in

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our lives you know we can go through different circumstances that people can put us in but we get to choose how to

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respond and if we can remember that and this is a quote from the bible that we don't

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battle against flesh and blood but against spirits and principalities of the air it makes it a whole lot easier

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to make a positive choice and not hold a grudge or hold a negative response to

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the person that may have put you in a bad situation so i i think that yes i think it's both and

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i think the more prone you are to engaging in the i don't want to gauge it you said earlier engaging a little evil

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i think the bigger intent and the bigger evil or even demonic outcomes can become

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more prevalent yeah i guess yeah

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i yeah i think the thing i'm like i've been kind of spinning around on it because i

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think a lot of times for me it's like i try to go with what i've experienced or trying to understand what i've come to

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experience or hear other people about and one of the things that i feel like i've struggled the most with even though

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i say i'm a spiritual person well what does that mean if i have like this

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uncertainty about this spiritual world that might exist and more of like a i

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think when i think of that i think of something more paranormal um like this kind of like

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uh world or dimension next to us or around us

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um and so i guess other thing i'm curious about and i think is our connection okay

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i can hear you and see you just fine i don't know if you can hear and see me and i don't have any things on my computer saying that i have

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a bad connection okay cool cool i mean it seems like our sounds are okay just the expensive one you're in but i don't

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know if it could be my end or your end i just i think we're still communicating either way yeah that's cool

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um but i i guess i was the thing that comes to mind for me more recently so i've had more of a fear i think of that

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idea of there being energies or spirits that um

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are outside of us that maybe aren't um maybe they were human once i'm not

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sure um but how these things one that they exist but how do they impact us and how

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do we um you know how do they they uh deal with us i often

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love watching um psychic haunting like shows where

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like um somebody was haunted and they invite a psychic to come go with them to where they were haunted

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and the psych is able to kind of talk with them about like what that spirit is or

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was in that particular situation and what kind of message was trying to be conveyed or you know things like that

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and it i don't know just to me like i have a hard time

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uh i don't know i guess the idea of thinking about that then it feels like

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yeah i don't know i don't know do you have something to say i'm sorry no it's okay

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i choose not to watch those kinds of shows because they they can be scary to me because i do think

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that the spirits and principalities are real and i think when we expose ourselves we

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open ourselves up to have an encounter more like what you described in the beginning and i don't choose to have an encounter

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like that i want to um continue to um

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make it i just want to continue to grow and to be lovely i don't know how to say that um

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and kind you know what i mean i want to overcome all these evil that thoughts being a start with good

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and i've had some extreme experiences as i've been growing up um and so i feel like i am speaking from

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some experience and i don't want to expose myself to that again

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and so i i don't want to i don't want to do that but i do believe that there are

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um good and bad spirits and i want to decide on the good and the bible talks a lot about it

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i'm in lots of different areas um but one of those is that you know in the in the event that you clear out all those

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evil if you don't fill it with good that evil is going to come back and it's going to bring more with you

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which with them which allows us to have a bigger challenge you know um

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that i don't know a ton about this i know what the bible says i know what my beliefs are and i know my own experience

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but with the evil that's what i experience and i try to be very conscious of of

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anything negative i you know evil spirit or not i don't want it to come out of my mouth if and if it's

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going to be prone to take me to an evil direction i don't want it because i i don't i don't want to deal

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with i don't want to be a part of any of that yeah i feel like i feel like i've had

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some like experiences over my lifetime um where i call probably called them

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label them spiritual um i think are we talking about good or

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bad or evil um i think both i think the ones that stand out to

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me though are the ones that scared me um i wonder if i needed to be scared about

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the particular circumstances like maybe you know like i don't know sometimes i don't know like is it mental

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is it spiritual is it you know something else going on but i've had this i've had this

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recurring situation ever since i can remember of um where i will be asleep at night and

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then i will wake up like i'll just wake up right as i feel something

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about to get on me and then you can feel it tangibly

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yeah so this would jump on me as soon as my eyes opened and it would hold me down

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and the pressure and everything would hold me down i wouldn't be able to see it i'd be paralyzed i wouldn't be able

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to speak or move or anything and then i would just be like freaked out and then

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eventually i would be able to get out like i would usually say something to god i usually pray to god

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and then it would stop and um it happened off and on and there's periods

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of my times where it was time in my life where it was happening a lot and uh one night it happened when a guy that

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i was seeing was actually sleeping in bed next to me and he um

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didn't necessarily see anything but he's he experienced it with

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me like he was freaked out he was like wow you know he was like what just happened

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like what was that like because i was so freaked out and i think he saw me

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in that freakout spot trying to speak or you know was parallel you know in that space and

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um i i've been always kind of a little curious about like why or when

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um i've always thought it was more demon like it was a dark demon or a um

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just something negative um this last october though i had

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it happen again and it started happening yeah okay same thing except for it seemed to

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be happening even more and then i was feeling as if it was with me even when

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i wasn't asleep or you know like i was feeling like it was with me all the time um which was really kind of freaking me

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out and um i it was the first time that i thought maybe

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it was more of maybe a mental um like a thing that was going on for me that it

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wasn't spiritual in nature that maybe it was just you know something going on in my mind um yeah i thought maybe um i was having

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night terrors i thought maybe it was like a trauma response um to you know

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things that have happened to me that i didn't have control over it's just kind of like a

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a night terror you know more of a mental health situation um and i remember it was freaking me out

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and i didn't necessarily think i knew that i was scared of it but i didn't feel like i needed to be scared

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of it do you know what i mean like i knew that yeah i was stronger than it i didn't need to be worried about it but

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um if i wasn't mindful i guess or if i wasn't

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you know it's like if you don't yeah yeah you know i could have i could have succumbed to it so to speak or to that

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yeah yeah he didn't fear but i knew i needed to find a way to to get out of it

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did you find a way well yeah so i eventually i actually started doing um that's when i started

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working with my inner child with some around some of my mental health like

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childhood stuff and i started working with my stuffed animal that is a representation of my inner

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child um like for folks who do like mental health and you know people talk about parenting

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your child in a way that like they're just for things that happen when you're a child that um stick with you

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especially if you don't tend to them i guess and for me i think some of it was coming up and so i think

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it i i don't know i felt like it was a way of like telling me that i needed to dress this thing

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and so i started to kind of like try to take care and acknowledge

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those parts of myself that were neglected or harmed

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when i was little that i never you know i never got taken care of

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you know for whatever reason whether it was my my parents or you know even myself you know um was

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able to to take care of some of those things and so i think it caused me that fear that situation

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whether whether it was mental spiritual whatever it caused me to be like okay i need to figure this out and now i have

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this stuffed animal named bonnie violet it's a little seahorse and it's my little

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um i don't remember my childhood so i can't um do the um i just can't picture myself as a

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child and so okay a lot of people with inner child work work they'll think of their smaller you know their child and

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like give it a hug and they'll take care of it and acknowledge it in ways that you know it needed or whatever and um

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so i've been doing that with my stuffed animal and as soon as i started doing that um i haven't had any problems with it

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every night i put her on my neck and i tell her good night and when i say

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my prayers to god um i say i talked to her too

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and it believe me it felt really weird and it kind of sounds weird to even talk about

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it now but i don't even care because ever since i started doing that it's i just feel so

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much better i i still have some of the fears i guess of like the yeah the thing do you still feel or see

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anything i do i feel things all the time um which is

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why i don't like to sleep in that dark or when did we get talking about i wasn't planning well i'm sorry i we just

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kind of went there no it totally went there i just wasn't expecting to be like uh revealing this uh work for me but i

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mean even i even hear like i sleep with the light on um and that's something that i've been

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doing for a while i was talking with my therapist about it and i think part of it also might be just

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that um i don't know that i feel safe in a lot of places and yeah

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at night when i'm alone that's the time that i can actually acknowledge that i'm scared

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yeah you know i don't know we've been we've been talking about it a little bit i wanted to acknowledge um

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pyro sorry planet um hello uh thank you for joining us and saying hello this evening um i would

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piero t planet i think yeah it looked like pierrot to me also

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there you go i don't know i you know like whenever i try to read uh on this thing i i it's like i can't

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even spell that or speak reading on here so you feel like the steps that you've

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taken then have been helpful well you know i mean i think in that in in that extreme way i don't think it's

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it's and that's the whole thing it's like i feel like i have this fear of something that i don't necessarily need to be afraid of

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um and again like whether it's um whether it is like um

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spirit or mental or whatever like um i just don't i just don't like having you know to choose to

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turn on my light yeah i get it i get it i get it

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so when we talk about spirituality um are you referencing things like that or are you referencing something

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different because i i don't feel like it's a negative when we talk about it

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yeah yeah well you know i don't think i think i don't know that i've allowed my um i don't know that i've really allowed my

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thinking to go there and i think that's why i'm freaked out a little bit because my relationship with god and my

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experience with even like faith and all that stuff has been it's more come from practical experience it's a more

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tangible kind of like experience and connection so this idea

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that there's something in between um which is which i believe you know i believe i have a spirit and me

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connecting with my spirit is what yes makes me and elevates me and like does all these sorts of things and we all

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have that and we can connect with each other i think i can get behind that stuff i think

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i don't know it just seems like this whole another extra world that i i don't know that i've really opened up i'm

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scared to open myself up too yeah i think it's good to have have a

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have a pause because uh i don't want to open myself up to evil spirits

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uh i don't want to be encompassed by that i don't want to be

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exposed even to that you know i try to stay on the opposite side where the holy spirit lives because

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just like when you said you cried out to god in that moment i've had similar experiences and have

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done the same and i realized now just i was laughing with with the cousin jean today i was

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we were up doing stuff for her

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regiment her healing regiment sorry i can get the word healing regiment through the night and so we went back to

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sleep this morning early about 4 30 and i slept just long enough to have a dream it was a ridiculous dream it was just a

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little bit scary but then i realized in my dream well this is a dream i can wake myself up right right and so i woke

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myself up so i'm like okay i want to not i want to be able to always wake myself up i want to be able to choose

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the right thing because this could it was going sideways fast in my dream yeah and it's like okay i'm going to wake

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myself up and so i kind of equate that with you know when we're in a state

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where we're exposed or in a state where we're not grounded we can go sideways and we don't realize

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we can be woke up and we can be or come to i could have woke up after experiencing whatever that was it could

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have totally destroyed my day i could have woke up afraid sweating angry you know whatever and that's that's the

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things that i don't want to happen to myself or the people around me yeah yeah well i had went almost my whole like i'd

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win a really long time since you know like it became a more recent thing when i became scared of the dark

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again i was scared of the dark until my late 20s but like it didn't come it's

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been coming back i wanted to also ignore molly molly walker thanks for joining us

23:57

and i'm always like thank you guys for talking about this i feel so totally vulnerable when sleeping

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open to all the dimensions yeah

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you know it's gonna be sound sound silly but i'm just gonna share anyway because

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we're no we're being vulnerable so you know for the when i first had my

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experience says with going to sleep and not having good dreams um it was it was it was scary to me it

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was freaking out at first i thought it was because i was watching scary movies so i stopped doing that um but you know i used to say that that

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prayer that we were taught when we were kids you know now i lay me down to sleep i pray the lord might i don't even know if

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i can remember it if i die before i awake i pray the lord my soul to take but i used to pray that because i was

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like and in between the lines i was like i'm afraid to go to sleep i'm afraid to

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go to sleep protect me while i go to sleep you know those were the kinds of things that i was saying but that

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prayer that i had been taught when i was a little girl was my starting point as i

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have matured and i've grown i've realized those moments in prayer are what sustain me in my sleep

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and they they protect me and understanding how this works and understanding the authority that i have

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because i i love jesus and because the holy spirit lives in me just like you were talking about you knew you could

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overpower it that exercise that power exercises because

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he's there taking care of it for me i don't i i've asked i've petitioned and it's there

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yeah so well i think i think for me for a long time i think that balance is um

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i think sometimes i let that negative energy the negative spirits however way you want it

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um i think it caused me to close up and it caused these walls and i think i got to a space

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in which then i didn't even let the good in or even really hard for the good to get in

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right and so yeah exactly with my journey in particular you know i feel like i'm really blossoming i'm

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really opening up and i'm really just letting you know like i'm really letting myself out and just being oh and i think in

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doing that i'm uh you know i it's i don't know i guess

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that it's just bringing up this fear that if i'm open to that then also

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the negative you know like i'm i'm also open then to not so great things i guess i don't

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know i think that's where see that's that's based on exposure yeah that's probably based on exposure

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growth thing you know it's like sorry go go ahead suck nah i i'm just

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encouraging you you know that's based on exposure um i when we allow ourselves to engage

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in things that aren't positive for us things that aren't um going to be honoring to the spirit um

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then that's that it can continue to uh seek us out you know the the evil wants

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to divide and conquer and so when you were describing that you kind of re

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uh recessed into yourself you kind of got lost in there you didn't you didn't know if you could you didn't want to

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break free that's real that is really real if you can get over so far to the negative so far to the evil side it's

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hard for the good to get in it's hard for it to get in there so what i've found

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is i don't expose myself like i don't i don't watch paranormal movies and maybe that's something

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little people would say because i know it's fake or whatever but you know it's too real to me so i'm

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not doing that you know i was in high school and dating when they had all those movies

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poltergeist and freddy krueger and friday the 13th oh horrible horrible

27:45

stuff and i had to stop watching that and when they've made their resurrection and come back around during the halloween time no

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that is not my exposure i don't want to be exposed there um because for me it's it's too real it's just too real

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and if maybe i'm maybe i'm too sensitive i don't know but for me it

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opens up all these things memories of night terrors is a good word to say it memories of

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feelings and experiences that i have i don't want to relive all that i'm in a place of victory and i don't want to be exposed to any of

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that not that the not that the holy spirit wouldn't protect me but but why do that

28:25

why go back around and re redo all of that stuff when i'm already on this side of victory

28:30

on this side of victory though i need to be sensible and i need to make sure that those little tiny things uh you know i'm

28:37

a mature christian but i'm not perfect and i have a whole lot to learn about this area especially but i know that if

28:44

i give just a little it makes way for more to come so i'm not going to do that

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one of the things i wanted to say was that just to like it's like i haven't been like an evil i just feel like i was

28:55

in that space of not receiving all that was available to me so you know like i

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wasn't saying like i i think because i wasn't you know suck i wasn't you know susceptible to any of it for a while

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i don't know that i grew that much spiritually or wasn't super and at least connected with that um but i think i've

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become just more curious about the spiritual realm and world i think i'm tired of running from it or

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or just you know like kind of being scared of it i think and so i've been trying to

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um not be scared anymore and so and there's also like um i've been you know like the last few

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years or whatever you know i i've done more prayer and things like that and oftentimes i'll pray and i will say you

29:42

know um i'll sometimes you know i'll bring in people that i know that have died like

29:47

i'll know that they're with me or i'll fill their presence or i will ask the only well spirits or good

29:54

um energies or things that like um i don't know if people would call them angels or whatever kind of surround me and be with

30:01

me um uh or unwell things uh you know stay out of at least my room

30:10

but there's a part of me that feels even bad and i don't know if that's like my whatever but i feel bad the idea like

30:16

some of us are unwell and some spirits are unwell so do they deserve not to be what do you mean what

30:22

do you mean unwell i know right well i think that's my hard time of saying that anything is evil or

30:29

bad or wrong but just well like not at their at their best or their you know succumb

30:36

to depression or anger or hurt or you know any of those sorts of things

30:41

that i think um can cause us not to be um

30:46

our spirits not to be as lifted and animated um you know

30:53

in the ways that we're trying to i guess okay i i think that people

31:00

people are different than spirits and i think that people can be unwell and i think that we're all

31:06

on a journey to to uh find our purpose and to find fulfillment right

31:12

um so that comes from a journey but the the only truth is is the truth of who we

31:19

are and our purpose and is in christ in my is what my bible says and so i i don't want it to

31:26

and it says that um i want to say this right and then and choose my words carefully um

31:33

i believe that the holy spirit that lives in me has authority over any demonic thing or evil thing

31:39

around me and and i believe that if i ask that it's taken care of

31:46

but if i continue to go back into that space af once it's already been done

31:53

believe me god will come in after me the holy spirit will come after me if i ask again

31:58

but he's also not going to make me stay out of there because i have the free will

32:04

so then i have to remind myself so why am i choosing this again this this state of fear this state of brokenness the state

32:10

of unwellness um instead of what i've i've had here on this victorious side with the holy

32:17

spirit does that make sense at all yeah yeah um yeah i get what he's saying

32:22

um tina johnson uh another family

32:28

she says holding heart space for god raises us to the cherished bliss of faith all negative bounces away fear can

32:35

make you feel unworthy yeah i think that's a lot of what i mean because i like i feel like no like i'm

32:42

connected with god i'm seeking god i have that sort of like you know comfort and understanding i

32:48

guess and yet sometimes i have these fears right and yeah and there's like this belief that

32:55

sometimes i'm not supposed to be afraid if i'm really you know if i really got god

33:01

um then i should be afraid you know and so i think sometimes i've gotten better about that with my thinking

33:08

um but i think you know there's something like oh well you're doing it wrong or there's some sort of like

33:13

i don't know there's something awry and but i think oftentimes you know fear just like a lot of things and pain

33:19

they're it's information it's a it's a um

33:24

it's just little jolts if you will to say hey like notice this thing or pay attention

33:30

or yeah you know there's something around i don't know um

33:35

well just let me let me encourage you and if i apologize if i came across as there's a right way or a wrong way or

33:41

because there's not i mean we're each uniquely made by god for a purpose and he's going to come to our rescue

33:48

whenever we call out to him so so no doubt um but but

33:53

the engagement we have with evil um is is something that we can choose to do

34:00

or not to do but here's the thing when we start going more towards our purpose and towards our good

34:06

the evil is going to seek us out because they don't want us to succeed that that evil wants to keep us

34:12

contained in this space of torment of torture of of chaos of anger whatever

34:18

you want to call it to be outside of that peace that comes from progressing on our journey and

34:24

fulfilling our purpose so if so say if i just decided today stop i'm not going to do anything else i'm not going to talk

34:30

to anyone else about love about having a relationship with someone that they've they've been um at bay from

34:37

um and i'm not gonna do that anymore evil has no reason to come after me because i'm not doing anything

34:43

why would they i'm they've stopped my purpose they've stopped what i'm doing they're stopped my kindness or whatever

34:49

it is i want to put it under but if i'm going to pursue this then i'm going to probably have some

34:55

challenges ahead of me maybe even through some of the temptations that i thought i had overcome you know evil can

35:01

come in temptations that are going to hinder us you know if i'm if i'm a drug addict it could come and the fact of someone that

35:07

i love and respect would offer me something that i shouldn't have that that to me is is an evil that

35:12

that's coming into my space that i love this person i want to participate because i love them but i

35:18

can't yes i need to be be cautious so if you're experiencing some of that um

35:24

uh evil presence coming after you so that's what's happening is because we're moving in the right direction it's because

35:30

we're trying to fulfill the purpose that god created us for and be encouraged because every time you cry out to god

35:36

he's going to be right there for you well you know that's something that you often say sometimes it's like whenever

35:42

like even a lot of times when we first started this podcast and there's certain things that are going on well in my life

35:48

or whatever they'll be kind of this idea of like uh the idea of like the devil's coming

35:53

at you or evil's coming at you right because you're you're doing well um what is that evil i

36:00

guess that you like what i guess what is i guess what um where does that come from when you say

36:07

that uh well it's outlined in the bible um the devil is who you i call him the

36:13

enemy usually if when you're having conversations i'll say the enemy um to me that's that's evil it's it's

36:20

the enemy the whatever is keeping us from fulfilling our purpose and it can be something as small

36:27

or something huge it can be something that's that's based on choice it can be something that's life threatening

36:33

every every every moment of every day we dictate by our choices

36:39

and like i said earlier i i'm the word the bible outlines it is that we don't

36:45

battle against flesh and blood but spirits and principalities of the air and i think that's the enemy or the devil or the evil however you want to

36:52

want to say it i think they're all the same yeah yeah i guess that part for me that i'm

36:58

still grappling with is this idea because i get the other hard it's hard to wrap your mind around i get it this

37:03

spirit or this energy that we can receive that we can create that we can pass on

37:09

and like uh maybe we can be hurt or harmed or you know unwell in some way

37:16

and that can cause us to react and respond and in not so great um behaviors and actions

37:23

that can cause harm and more pain to other people and i think some people would

37:28

label that as evil and i guess i have a hard time labeling that as evil

37:34

in a person because i feel like it's created in us given certain experiences or you know

37:41

what i mean like i feel like and i don't know if that's just a misplaced compassion

37:46

or a misunderstanding of the breadth of how evil can

37:53

manifest i guess you know i think it's both i think we need to have compassion

37:59

because we all i think can have a in an evil

38:05

sort of a way without even realizing it you know let me just give you an example

38:10

um i'm a mom i have lots of hopes and dreams for my

38:15

children so in my attempt to guide their hopes

38:21

and dreams the way i think they should go i could potentially do evil things

38:26

does that make sense their their purpose their plan their place that god is taking them could be

38:34

different than my plan for them so if i try to hinder them in any way

38:39

not intentionally because i love them i've planned i've done this extra work so that they could have this open door

38:45

unintentionally i'm becoming a negative or an evil spot for them or an opportunity for them to

38:51

be distracted away from what god has from them so i think sometimes we we do that

38:56

unintentionally out of right motives wrong action and i think that's why it's important

39:02

that we seek god first to guide us in all of those things you know with my girls i had to realize

39:08

you know what if i really believe that god created him and loved them do i not believe that he loved them even

39:14

more than me and that his love and purpose and plan for them is probably even greater than my plan for them

39:21

and so my role then is to to continue to pray for them that they would pursue

39:26

the fullness of their potential the fullness of the purpose that god has for them and to come alongside them and help

39:32

them to discern the rights and the lefts and not try to dictate what those need to look like

39:37

you know that is how i can come along and and uh be a part of a of a good and

39:43

and be a partner with them and help them say you know what have you thought about this have you not oh did you realize how

39:50

this thing affected you because sometimes people can't see for themselves and that's why we're in relationship together i think that's why

39:56

god puts us together in the family units that he does so that we can not guide not dictate but help to navigate

40:04

one another encourage one another and and bring wisdom for as we all pursue our purpose

40:11

yeah molly walker asks how can compassion ever be misplaced

40:20

no you go ahead i've been talking so you take your answer first i'm the one who said it

40:26

well i asked it um how can compassion never be misplaced do you have a response to it

40:32

i i do okay can we hear it yeah sure um

40:39

compassion i think is is necessary it's it's an amazing thing that god created us all with

40:44

but i think compassion can be taken advantage of and when our compassion is taken advantage of then it becomes misplaced

40:52

and i'll give you an example boy our family has lots of examples you guys are going to be sick of hearing about my family

40:59

you know our world is is dictated a lot by money resources

41:05

things that we feel like we need to have but if we provide a place for people to

41:10

not have to move forward and to become mature in what they can do like i'll give you an

41:16

example my one of my daughters um needed it needed the financial help

41:22

i'm happy to do that the first time so when they come back again

41:29

asking for the same financial help my question is well what happened last time

41:35

and okay so if i help again then for me then there needs to be a plan in place so

41:40

that we're not at this crossroads again because here's what's happening as much as i have compassion for them i want them to be successful i want them to

41:46

move out and to do the things that they want to do and be in a position where they can be who god's called them to be

41:52

if i'm not allowing them to walk through the hard stuff and the easy stuff then i'm not allowing them to experience the

41:57

things that they need to experience right well that's the misguided compassion is that

42:02

yeah i mean i think to some degree that's that right but i think it's all kind of about like how you how you label that because

42:09

i don't know that it can pass the compassionate thing would to be to keep saving them right like i don't think

42:15

that that would be compassion you keep to keep saving them would be compassion

42:21

not not compassion yeah i i agree keep saving them is not compassion but it can

42:26

be mistrued i'm even even if they say to me and i've had this happen well i thought you were a christian

42:33

why wouldn't you help me do this or that or you know whatever it might be and i'm like well i've been helping you do this

42:39

for six months and nothing's changed that's not compassion anymore that's enablement

42:44

and so i think there has to be a distinction now we're talking and then there's lots of kinds of compassion now i'm the first one to get in there and

42:51

help build a house i'm the first one to go out and clean my neighbor's yard when they're 86 years old and can't be

42:57

outside and do their own yard work anymore i'm the first person to run around to the grocery store to people who can't get

43:04

out that to me is compassion in a positive light and an empowering light

43:09

and a servitude kind of a passion yeah compassion

43:16

so many things i feel like we have so many things i know i feel like and like what did we talk about

43:22

what didn't we talk about yeah like over 45 minutes in already are we really

43:29

i know which means like we're oh we're done okay we're supposed to

43:35

never okay but yeah i mean i think it's yeah it's i

43:41

i think it all comes down to like at least for me and um it's just coming to understand

43:48

i think i am less i think sometimes my challenge in

43:54

hearing um people you know it's again we're just labeling things differently you know

44:00

it's like i like for me to label something evil seems like i have to

44:05

like i don't label much evil if anything right yeah so

44:11

so in doing that though am i i don't know i just think that's the thing that i find

44:17

curious sometimes i think that's a really great thing about me and sometimes i wonder if i'm just like bullying myself

44:23

keep in mind anything that people do outside of like something horrific like

44:29

i don't know what i don't want to throw any of that out there but most people aren't evil they're not evil even if they do crappy

44:35

things they're not evil and so to label them evil would be wrong now but sometimes the things that they

44:42

do can be disturbing they can even be borderline evil but that's an opportunity i think to not be

44:48

offended to not like put in your two cents unless your ass and they really want to hear from you but it's an

44:54

opportunity to prayerfully stand in the gap for them and to encourage them on the positive side of it away from that

45:00

thing that's distracting them or keeping them away but it's not a you're evil i'm never going to talk to you we're never

45:06

going to be around you i don't think you're you know whatever that's not that's not good

45:11

yeah well i think i think that sometimes uh things that maybe i've heard wrong you

45:17

know i think you know sometimes when we i think you know sometimes we've had or sometimes i've had this problem with

45:23

more maybe conservative thinking christians some more conservative thinking

45:29

christians that will label a lot of things evil including me yeah um

45:34

and and because of my understanding of or my the way that i use evil or not use

45:39

evil i'm like no i'm not that um in their understanding maybe i am and

45:45

maybe that's not um well let me tell you that's not what the bible says

45:52

right but i'm right but it could be james yeah yeah

45:57

yeah yeah and at the end of the day if you say that you're a christian and you're seeking after god that's your

46:04

standard so if they are saying that you're evil then they're not reading their bible

46:10

yeah yeah well no thank you for saying that i know a

46:17

lot of folks would love to hear that um for sure um

46:22

ah so much to talk about i feel like we might need a continuation next week or we were

46:28

considering talking about prayer next week so maybe we'll ask in the comments what they would like

46:35

for us to talk more about this or to go into the next topic or you know

46:41

if you guys have more questions or things that we didn't talk about or if we prompted anything

46:46

put it here we'll readdress it next week if not we'll we'll go on to something else

46:51

awesome tina johnson says forgiveness is good yeah we're going to be talking a

46:57

lot about that last last season in the first season yeah it's a great topic and

47:02

forgiveness you know um september or labor day weekend so this last weekend

47:08

was the way i feel is the our anniversary of when we really like or when i

47:15

open myself up to being in relationship with you yeah that is true and to i guess offer

47:23

forgiveness and to receive i don't know like i don't know because it's so hard because it i i

47:28

mean like at that time i felt like i needed to forgive you but i've understand things a little bit

47:34

differently but at that time it was definitely a time when i felt like i needed to afford you forgiveness and ask

47:41

for forgiveness of you um and that was three years ago can you believe that oh i can't believe it

47:47

well time flies when we're having fun right i know right well and uh september 14th i think was the day of

47:54

our first episode of splintered grace so oh was it really i didn't even equate that say you're so much better at this

48:00

stuff than i am either actually the linkedin said thank goodness your anniversary was

48:07

splintered grace and then i was like oh well let me look back and i looked at our first episode and it said september

48:13

14th so wow we are opening up on a year with this podcast that is awesome that

48:18

is it's amazing actually it's super super and we're so glad to those who have been with us along the

48:24

way and the new ones that'll hopefully join us um we do have to say goodbye for

48:30

tonight yeah goodbye everybody so um have a great night and we'll see you next week on thursday at um 5 30 pm

48:38

pacific standard time thanks so much take care and bye bye

48:44

good night splintered grace podcast

48:49

is brought to you by a queer chaplain follow us on all of our social medias

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