The Golden Rule, is it enough? "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." or "Do unto others as they would have done unto them." Are they one in the same? Join the conversation live or share your thoughts in the comments.
This season we push the depths of our relationship even further. Tackling the difficult conversations that we fear may separate us.
Tina, a conservative christian woman and Bonnie Violet, a trans gender queer drag queen have an anti-cancel culture conversation. While many family members are choosing to no longer speak, we have chosen to sit at the table and engage in difficult conversation to find peace and restoration.
To learn more about Splintered Grace go to https://linktr.ee/aqueerchaplain
Get your Splintered Grace Merch!!! https://a-queer-chaplain.creator-spring.com
Support by joining Patreon! Thank you! https://www.patreon.com/bonnieviolet
a queer chaplain
Helping to lace one’s narrative with a spiritual thread.
Big shout out and Thank you to our monthly supporters. With your support we can continue to bring and upgrade Splintered Grace Podcast quality and reach.
To learn more or to join our Patreon go to patreon.com/bonnieviolet
a queer chaplain
Helping to lace one’s n
Engage! Rate, Follow, Subscribe & Share
Book ME! - Keynote, Panel, Guest on Show, Officiate Wedding /Memorial in/out of drag.
Collaborate! - Join Team, Guest, Make a Pitch
Sponsor! Patreon, Venmo, PayPal
The Golden Rule, is it enough? "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." or "Do unto others as they would have done unto them." Are they one in the same? Join the conversation live or share your thoughts in the comments.
This season we push the depths of our relationship even further. Tackling the difficult conversations that we fear may separate us.
Tina, a conservative christian woman and Bonnie Violet, a trans gender queer drag queen have an anti-cancel culture conversation. While many family members are choosing to no longer speak, we have chosen to sit at the table and engage in difficult conversation to find peace and restoration.
To learn more about Splintered Grace go to https://linktr.ee/aqueerchaplain
Get your Splintered Grace Merch!!! https://a-queer-chaplain.creator-spring.com
Support by joining Patreon! Thank you! https://www.patreon.com/bonnieviolet
a queer chaplain
Helping to lace one’s narrative with a spiritual thread.
Big shout out and Thank you to our monthly supporters. With your support we can continue to bring and upgrade Splintered Grace Podcast quality and reach.
To learn more or to join our Patreon go to patreon.com/bonnieviolet
a queer chaplain
Helping to lace one’s n
Engage! Rate, Follow, Subscribe & Share
Book ME! - Keynote, Panel, Guest on Show, Officiate Wedding /Memorial in/out of drag.
Collaborate! - Join Team, Guest, Make a Pitch
Sponsor! Patreon, Venmo, PayPal
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[Music]
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you'd love to [Music]
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hello how's it going happy happy day happy whatever time it is we were just talking about that we're
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just talking about how we we we might want to consider not saying good night or good morning or what day
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it is or whatever but uh hi it's good to see you
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my name is bonnie violet i'm a transgender queer spiritual drag artist and digital chaplain
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and my co-host here is hi everybody it's tina frank and i'm a mature christian i forget all the things
1:06
that i am anyway i'm excited to be here with you guys and we are talking about the age-old
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i don't even know what to call it the golden rule uh rule yeah maybe i was trying to think
1:19
of something you know finesse i didn't do it right but anyway so the age-old saying maybe i don't know
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oh sane would have been good man see i don't know sorry let's try it again [Laughter]
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anyway we're gonna be talking about the golden rule and bonnie and i were just having a conversation about that's not
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something that at least not in our circles that people talk about much anymore
1:43
so it's this should be a lot of fun yeah definitely well and i think yeah i
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mean it's i think it is something i think it's though it's something that like a lot of people have heard at one point in time
1:54
um and i and like even when we first started talking about it it was like where did that come from like it's
2:00
something that we hear all the time but where did it come from is it like is it in the bible um and you had actually
2:06
found it right yeah i did i was like because i you and i were talking like you know i've heard that and i wonder if it's one of those sayings that people
2:12
think it's from the bible but that's not really from the bible so but it is it is in the bible it's matthew 7 12.
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and it's not same do you do you know what's uh what it's kind of spoken around
2:24
uh what do you mean around like the worst is above it and below it like the the context i guess uh you know what i i
2:32
did not i didn't go that far through the whole chapter i'm so sorry so unprepared
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no i mean i didn't i didn't ask you for that so i didn't prep you i i i was saying matthew is if that's
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right that's one way to do it huh well i think um for me you know i i did hear uh like
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the golden rule i think i just i do i feel like i heard it a lot when i was younger um i think when i got into recovery
2:59
you would hear it a little bit um every now and again from folks uh you know they would mention it
3:05
what what context usually did you hear when you were in recovery i'm just curious if you're willing to share
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i mean i think probably something around kindness and like how to
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how to be with your fellow like not to like you know like gossip or you know um you
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know all those sorts of things that we can judge other people all those sorts of things that um we don't like that we
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we do um and we end up doing to ourselves and um when we can kind of let go of that as best we can
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at least i noticed that i was able to not um judge when i'm not judging you as
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much i'm not judging me as much um yeah and i don't know if that goes both ways like i feel less insecure
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uh when i'm not looking around pointing out what's wrong with everyone else like yeah usually and i don't know if that's
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like when i'm doing that that means that i'm feeling insecure or because you know what i mean like i
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don't know which comes first um you know i i think that's that's a thought i i find that
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when i'm most insecure is when i'm trying to find someone else's challenge so that i can feel like my challenge
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isn't as as horrible as theirs most of the time i'm making up my own
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challenge so it's really right right usually never an issue anyway
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so but yeah that's what i find for me anyway that's when i have to remind myself
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right well in a few years back i um i feel like i came up with this i'm sure
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i didn't but um like i liked the idea like the golden rule to me like i wanted more like it
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you know it says do unto others as you would have done unto you right so that's like doing
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to you yeah have them do unto you right yeah and so like i get so i get that but
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what i what i'd like to do is change it to i think it takes it a little bit further is do unto others
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as they would have done unto them so like i'm going to treat you as you want
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to be treated not as i think you should be treated i guess or do you know what i mean or like
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even um not even not necessarily treat you as i treat myself but maybe even more like it
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for you uh i wanted to say hello to nicole hey nicole thanks for joining us
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nicole says she agrees with tina i am the same way you can't agree with tina already yes already she's on my side
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just saying right not that they're sides right i don't know it depends on who you're
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asking right well i think i think i think one of the reasons why i kind of like the idea of like doing unto others is you
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would have them done unto them um basically like to me is that ideal is
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um i think maybe as a queer person or somebody who is different i think that
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there's often times that people don't want to acknowledge or notice or like i don't know just
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acknowledge certain parts about myself that i might want to ask them like say i might want to ask them like i might want
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to ask them to call me by a different name or use a different gender pronoun or um maybe i don't like it when you touch
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me um but you didn't mean any harm by it and you like it when people touch you
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and tickle you or whatever you know what i mean so i think just kind of in that sense instead of like assuming
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what somebody else wants um or how they want to be treated to maybe even ask them or do as do you
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know what i mean like put it more in that direction yeah but i think this is a and again i
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wish i i might just pull up my bible and read it uh real quick um there's a i think context is important
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now that you're talking about that because i think uh you're trying to create an intimacy out of something that
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maybe wasn't meant to be completely intimacy um this is the the the
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the phrase the way i read it is is for us to use at any level
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when we're thinking that we want to when we're having a negative thought so i don't necessarily if i'm meeting
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someone know how they would want to be treated you know so i i would want to treat them the way
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i would want to be treated if it was in an uncomfortable situation or if someone say there was an
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altercation of some sort and i was just happened to be in the room i wouldn't want to get engaged i'd want
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to treat both of those folks as as not knowing them in in a way that i
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would want to be treated in this situation and and kind of just help him calm down or whatever that
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might look like so i think when you're talking about um you know maybe if you don't want to be touched and someone
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touching you or or changing your name or your gender pronoun i think those are things for people
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um when you get to know them and you kind of have some
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idea of who they are and then that would be the question so how would you like me to address you right
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yeah rather than just random yeah well and i think but i think part of what it is is i think it's like being
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somebody who is choosing like a spiritual way of living uh choosing uh i i have a desire
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like you do to you know to to live outside of my box to you know to meet new people to like so i
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think part of that is maybe taking the effort and you know it's difficult because you can't just assume
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because somebody is this religion or somebody lives in this area or is lgbtq or whatever that
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like you know everything about them but i think there might be like some cultural things or there might be some
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like general things that might be helpful for you to be aware of um you know in different sort of settings
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so i think it's not necessarily like an expectation but maybe it's something we could challenge ourselves in doing
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um i i i think that's the key right there this is a the golden rule is something
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to help us improve it was to keep kids in order that's all it was wow that's how my mom used it for and
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and i'm grateful because it worked and it helped me to stay on that little straight narrow path that i needed to
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um but as an adult and as i read the read it even just in in on its own it helps me to think about
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you know in a situation where okay what if i'm in a situation where i get to make a choice and
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i need to not always choose the choice choice that's going to only be beneficial for me i need to choose the choice that i would want someone to
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choose for me so let me give you an example say i don't know i was i had the opportunity
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to give someone a pay increase or i got to decide their pay increase i had to pick
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it between here and here i would want someone to pick for me the higher increase
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or maybe not the higher increase maybe there's a series of benefits that would come around that maybe this benefit
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would be better than the increase and i would want someone to choose based on the benefit of the whole and not just
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that monetary or that moment thing so and you know as a business owner and this makes sense because sometimes
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giving someone a raise um is the easy thing to do but offering
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them a 401k over the long haul is going to cost me more money see i could give them a raise and they'd
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probably be happy because now they can have an extra dollar every time they go to work and work those hours but if i
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give them a 401k and i match that in the long run it's going to be better for them so i could choose this cheaper
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for me they're going to be happy it's a settling point but the right thing to do would teach me to choose this because
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this is what i would want someone to choose for me if they were making that same decision for me yeah well and i think i think what i
10:39
would challenge that to do is like why not ask them what they would prefer
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you know what i mean like if you're in a position to where you're like okay i would do this or i would do uh this other you know i guess what this idea is
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is why not ask them would you want the 401k or would you rather take a raise you know if i was in the position if i
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had the power and i think that's i think that's part of what it is is i think when you're in a position of power or you kind of have
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the the ability to hurt or harm somebody else potentially then how can
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you give up that power if you will to in order to help that person have a little bit more agency or have a more balanced
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experience uh again you know it kind of just depends on you know the different situations and i think it's just kind of
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nuanced but i think really just i think for for me it's just to challenge me to
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because i think the golden rule yes it's great but i think for me it's just to challenge myself to like can i go how
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how further can i take this and i can go further with my understanding of do unto others as they would have done to do and
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you know what i mean like i could just take that same thing forward and it it does not necessarily like it can also
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like it can hold that second statement as well like you know what i mean it's it's it's kind of one and the same
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um or you could get the same results out of um i think leaning with with one or the
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other but potentially i think you could but but that statement is all about who you are
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as a person and how you and their their interaction is is uh
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their choice you know what i mean if i'm always setting my doing the best that i can for somebody
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else even at the at the cost of myself to a point
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then i'm always going to i'm going to do well i think that whole statement there was for the purpose of us
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to ask ourselves are you being selfish are you doing this for a self-serving moment you know i the one things i've
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learned most over life is when i feel like the holy spirit's asking me why you know why are you offended
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why does that offend you sometimes it's really ridiculous or why would you why would you say that
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why why why why do you feel like this is going to be a bonus to you and just having the holy spirit ask me these
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things that reveal stuff about myself so as i'm learning about myself i'm also
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learning about how i can better serve someone else so you know if i don't if i don't want to eat ramen noodles why
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would i give those in my food pantry box that i'm going to donate to my church
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right do you know what i mean do unto others as you would have them do unto you so you know those are the kinds of
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things i think uh come to my mind and those are the analogies that as i've become an adult and grew up that i had
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to always think about oh well i wouldn't want to eat that so why would i give that to them yeah they may not like that
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and think ramen noodles the shiz but right there someone else is going to give them that because i'm going to give
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them something that i feel is is awesome maybe well because like at the end of the day
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it's like how are you going to feel when you get hand-handed that thing like you want like when you're receiving
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something you're gonna you know whatever you know and so it's like why not afford another person that same experience you
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know maybe for somebody else it's it's ramen and for another person it's cup of noodles
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right and i think that comes with relationship don't you think that the starting point here is do unto
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others but as i get to know you now i know what you would like what you would enjoy but if i don't know you the
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minimum i should do is what i would do for myself right but i think just as much as you can go really deep with the
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golden rule i think you can take uh the statement that i made as fairly shallow
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as well like it doesn't have to be super intimate and deep it could just be like uh in a general rule
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uh when i'm going to a room i'm going to say my pronouns so that people who
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um might have a different pronoun than they were you know had at one point in time
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in their life would feel comfortable and maybe even see that i'm an ally that i'm somebody who who can see them or
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understand that they might be in the room like those sorts of things are things that we can do even with strangers we don't know anybody in the
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room but we do know that some people might feel a little bit more comfortable in a space if we do that thing um you
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know asking somebody can feel uncomfortable when you do that thing
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well i mean i think part of that is as um yeah i mean i don't know because
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i don't i don't understand how somebody would be uncomfortable with that i
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you're right just like some people don't understand why it's necessary so there's always going to be a difference
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do you see what i mean not just with but i think with lots of things yeah and i guess my understanding is is
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then like how do you like as folks who are trying to show up for people differently like are
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you willing to not like so maybe you don't like maybe you don't like it but you do it anyway for that other
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person or vice versa so i think that's part of it too is just not necessarily like
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making assumptions but also being mindful about what is it that i can do
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in order to have somebody have a different experience because at the end of the day we all want to be seen we
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all want to be heard we really want to know though that they want to have a different experience
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what do you mean well how do i know that that person wants me to recognize them in a different fashion than i already am
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you don't you you wouldn't have to i'll all it would be is like in that particular situation you would just be
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like um you would just be like like say you as somebody who um maybe you don't maybe like you as
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somebody who you know pronouns aren't an issue right but some
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people are really particular about their pronouns like if used he pronouns with me i don't like that and you know that
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so you know like so that like that's changed but it's also like um so why not like make the effort not to
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you know to help that other person feel comfortable as people and i'm what i'm saying is this is more of a challenge of
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like us as as you and i as like spiritual godly people who are trying to
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like do better like you know what i mean do better not just the status quo um to to
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to find ourselves in new rooms with new people having new experiences what are some of
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the things that we could do uh differently potentially and again it's just it's just
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thinking about it that's not always going to be the case it's not always going to be the situation there is
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um a question or comment here uh barry the gardener says people may be
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uncomfortable with my pronouns but at least using them gets the conversation going which is a first step
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exactly so i mean so i think part of that is too you know i think it's a way and it's
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also a way of signaling as somebody who wants to be supportive who wants to be like a loving kind person then that's a
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way that you can signal without saying do you know what i mean it's like you don't have to go to somebody say hey are you trans you can
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say like hi like hi i'm so-and-so and you know but but also like by you
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saying what you're prone on you is it helps other people know that you like you get it like or that you're you're
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aware of the fact that they they um that there are people in the world who that
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matters to and you're you're taking the time to that's just a signal like that's
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a something you can do that speaks to that person that doesn't even have to be said right so
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people prefer a pronoun over their name no no i like to be called by my name
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when i introduce myself hey i'm tina frank what's your name right and whether somebody
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if somebody kept calling you he if somebody kept referring you to as he that probably wouldn't feel so great
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i've never dealt with that challenge but i always present myself as a woman so
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i think that would i can't imagine but but then at the end of the day too it's like what does it
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mean to present as a woman or to present as a man or present as a non-binary
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person i i think just as uh how i how i see someone if i see someone
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in a beautiful gown i'm assuming they're a she or
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i i'm assuming that their name matches what their
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what how their outward appearance looks i guess because if i don't know these people i i'm not sure that i'm i'm comfortable
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i don't know right well and i think that the big thing and then i mean i think and it's that it's actually national pronoun
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awareness day or whatever oh okay i didn't know that but i think part of that too is there are some folks that
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you're not going to be able you know you're you're not just because you look at somebody you're not always going to know right but they're just calling them
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by their name isn't okay like hey if you know how are you so nice to meet you if you know what people look like but if
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i'm introducing myself i'm gonna introduce myself as tina frank and i hopefully you're gonna introduce
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yourself as whatever your name is and my hope is that our conversation would be based on that uh all this other stuff
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or just semantics if i'm having a conversation i mean all those other things i mean
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i don't know that's maybe that's just me well and but but what i'm and i i hear that and also i think if
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we're really trying to make space for different people then i don't
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understand making space i i know we've talked about making space and i think i don't know is
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that is that another word for tolerance or no like do you want people in your vicinity
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like do you want to be in conversation with people that's what i mean by okay somebody introduced me myself wouldn't
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assume that they want that i want to have a conversation with them or hey hi tracy join me for coffee let's sit and
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and visit that's not i i don't know i i i'm trying to understand what you're saying and i
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understand when you and i talk it's it's important and i'm working on that but i feel like you and i have a different
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different relationship at least in this regard just because i knew you before as as a he
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and i knew you that for like years so i respect who you are and i'm working on it but once in a while i slip and i try
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to apologize if i catch myself yeah so so for me i feel like this is different when i meet somebody new
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um i i just meet them and whoever they are i i embrace um and even
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if i even if i don't agree with him and that's not just in in the gay and trans community and
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the lgbt i'm sorry i know i'm not gonna tell the letters it's okay um and that's just anybody you know
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that that's not just that that community so yeah yeah cece says um hi cc cc says right so can
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you imagine being able to affirm and hold space for someone just by saying hi
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i'm cc my pronouns are she her and ending your emails with your pronouns
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and what she's saying is just by doing that you're i think especially often times
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when we if we're like mindful about like who we represent to other people and and again these are just things that i do
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when i'm tr like how can i be different in this space so that more people can feel like i'm here for them
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and not for me um or or that it's more mutual at least because you know and it was one thing
22:27
that i learned i remember when i first moved to chicago and you know i i was um
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like i had um i and and this was more so like around around race for me is like i didn't
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understand i didn't understand like i knew there was race racial differences and i knew that there was
22:45
different experiences but often time i thought oh because i grew up poor and i grew up in a small town and i was
22:52
aware that somehow like i um
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it was like i i wasn't aware of how people might see me as a white
23:03
person you know that people might automatic like i know one of the things i was really frustrated about was that people
23:09
assumed that i was rich um that i had money that i had a good a good like life
23:17
that i was well educated you know all these sorts of assumptions which were all great like
23:23
great assumptions right like those are actually good assumptions it wasn't like people were automatically thinking poor
23:28
of me um but i remember being really like no you don't you don't understand that's not my experience that's not you know
23:35
that's not you know what i mean that's not that's not me and i think it's just sometimes in the same way of just kind
23:40
of like not um not making that assumption and so if i go in the room knowing
23:47
that some people are going to be perceiving me as that person especially say i'm i'm
23:52
working you know because i i had an up opportunity where i worked with a lot of i mean i was the only white person at
23:57
work a lot of the times and so i had to really come to to learn and understand that like i
24:03
i don't know there was just some times where people were used to culturally these different
24:09
ways of interacting with one another that was kind of at play that were creating these dynamics that that i
24:15
wasn't even fully aware of and there were things that i could begin
24:20
so if i knew that people were gonna make those assumptions of me and if a person like that was coming in the room
24:26
do you know what i mean it's like that's just gonna help me be a little bit more mindful about how i am in the space and
24:32
what i say um what i might not say um those sorts
24:37
of things i don't know if i explained that quite quite that well but that was just
24:43
another example just to kind of get out of the um pronoun world um
24:50
and if you want to like i mean and i think sometimes when we wear badges or identities
24:57
that um are assumed to not be supported to someone
25:04
then that's when i think it's even more important to like to like
25:10
to like make an effort to say something to help them see that you understand or that you get it because otherwise people
25:17
like as as a conservative christian woman you know going into an lgbtq space
25:23
going into that space and saying hi i'm tina i use she her pronouns is gonna go
25:28
so much further and i'm a christian or whatever you know what i mean like those sorts of things are known about you when
25:34
you come into the space just by saying your she her pronouns all those other people are gonna feel a little bit more
25:39
safer or at least maybe she's not one of those maybe she's not one of those christians
25:46
do you know what i mean just by just by you saying saying that little thing
25:52
um and that that's that's what i mean by this idea of doing unto others as they would have done unto them
25:58
um can could maybe be a useful tool in helping us to be
26:05
you know in company with um with with people different from our from our
26:11
own experience yeah i i agree that understanding people that you want to engage with and grow a
26:17
relationship with i think that's that's important but as for day to day life that you're
26:25
making decisions that affect other people i think if you know that you're doing at least what you would want it
26:30
done for yourself i think is a good is a good baseline yeah when i think but part of that is like
26:37
really dig deep down to what it is i think if we really deep down to what it is that we want for ourselves
26:43
it probably would include maybe making one of those accommodations here or there
26:49
and and it might i just i i you know i don't question the word of god
26:55
um i i trust it it's worked for me in my life it's it's made me into the
27:01
the woman that i am it's given me the opportunity to understand and love people
27:07
um far beyond any capacity that i thought i would um changed me if you if even if i even
27:13
look different if you look at pictures over the years you know me you've been part of my life for forever
27:19
um it's it's it's changed me and so so yeah so i don't i don't um
27:26
i don't modify uh the word of god and that doesn't mean that i don't um
27:33
adjust or whatever that's my but you do right but you do interpret you interpret
27:38
it to how it how it fits for you
27:44
what do you mean or your understanding of it not that you're like i i realize that might have said in the sense of
27:50
like oh you're interpreting it so that it works for you but more in this sense you're interpreting it in a way that you
27:56
understand it um which can be different from person to person
28:02
um because we all might want to be treated differently yeah
28:07
i guess that's true we can also understand the word in a different profession i guess
28:12
right but there are probably still some core elements to that right like i want
28:17
people to be kind to me i want people to be honest with me i don't want them to steal from me you know like those sorts
28:23
of things i think are pretty you know like we can get behind that right like that yeah yeah
28:28
that's pretty uh under like kind of basic level stuff and maybe some of this other stuff is just
28:34
you know maybe not um maybe it's too much for some people maybe it's not you know i don't know um
28:41
yeah because yeah because i mean i don't know i've had to
28:47
because if i think about it like you know like um i don't know you know i've had to let go
28:53
of some uh some things that i might prefer for myself or
28:58
that maybe somebody else says or words or does that um i might not care for
29:04
i sometimes have to look past that right and we get right and so i think part of that is
29:11
just um like like with anything and i'm not saying the golden rule is bad i don't know i think
29:17
i'm all for it and also like and and i think that even with what i'm saying i think it still falls in
29:24
line with the golden rule like i don't think i'm asking for anything outside of the golden rule
29:30
but again it kind of just comes down to interpretation and how we talk about it and how far we want to take about talk
29:37
take it or where we want to take it right or how we want to take it um like i might think that oh
29:43
understanding pronouns and knowing that i'm coming in like people are going to perceive me this way when i come into
29:48
this space like i might find that helpful and something that i want to do when going into a space like that seems
29:55
important to me but it might not be for somebody else and and that's you know that's just
30:01
where they're at and for me okay like that's that's how they are yeah um but i i want to challenge i want to
30:07
understand myself i want to be able to be in a room with somebody who is like really uncomfortable about pronouns and
30:12
and doesn't want to participate or whatever like i can handle that like you know what i mean i don't i don't understand it
30:18
but i will i would i would like okay well i'm not going to press you to you know to
30:25
tell me what your pronoun is or whatever it is that's making them uncomfortable or whatever um
30:30
to some degree you know and again it's probably the setting the environment maybe the tone and maybe how i'm feeling
30:37
that day is to be honest yeah you know like it just comes down to that sometimes
30:43
how about the how about folks that are listening to us what do you what do you think what are your thoughts i think there still are a
30:49
few people on looks like we've had five steady people the whole time which is cute
30:59
and at this at this stage in my life for me the golden rule is doing the best i can to
31:06
love and and to me love is just one language and uh
31:11
it's it's being real being honest um being vulnerable
31:16
um and and being willing you know be being willing to do all those things you know being
31:22
willing to walk into a space that makes you uncomfortable and introducing yourself
31:27
um and doing it because you want to not because you have to and as you get to
31:32
know people and then understanding who they are and being willing to allow them to
31:38
be who they are um and and hopefully in return at the relationships moving in the right
31:43
direction they would allow me to be who i am and and still find a place to to love
31:49
one another i have to be honest i don't know if it's just because i'm getting older maybe i'm lazy
31:55
i don't know but i i don't want to have to learn another language to tell someone that i love them or to show up for them
32:03
you know for me i really am not a a stickler on on all of that i just like
32:10
people i just care about what's happening to people i don't want to see people suffer in any
32:15
capacity i want people to know that they are important and that
32:20
they have value and and that each one of us no matter what our pronouns are has a purpose
32:26
you know for me pronouns are uh beautiful lovely um
32:32
majestic you know those are the kinds of pronouns when i see people i'm like oh my gosh they're beautiful
32:38
i don't always see the gender gender things and i don't know if
32:45
if that's wrong then i apologize and i will be respectful and i'll do my best to
32:52
address people the way they want to be addressed but man just call me tina i'm good and i have an answer to hey you that lady with
32:59
the gray hair um you looking at me whatever i answered all that it doesn't matter to me
33:04
um but i would i want to do my best so hopefully that's not a negative tick
33:12
in my box no i mean for anyone who you know has been listening or thought that i
33:19
might be okay because i i feel like i'm okay yeah i mean i think only the like
33:25
for something not to be an issue for you is a privilege when it's an issue for somebody else
33:32
it's not right and so i think that's where the difference could be categorized with all those people
33:38
just because christians are known as hateful for me to say that automatically there's an assumption made unless i
33:45
present myself in a certain capacity without even knowing me so isn't that the same kind of thing
33:51
that we're talking about well no i mean no i don't i mean i think yes right yes it
33:58
is to some degree right like if people want to to um but i think
34:04
you know like there are a lot of things that um that don't impact me personally
34:11
that um that i just get to not worry about and not think about
34:16
um and so i think that's something that i'm coming to understand more and more as i get older i mean and and you know
34:22
right now people are able to kind of prescribe that as as privilege but the
34:27
fact that i don't have to worry about um like i didn't have to worry about
34:33
going in a grocery store when i was living in chicago and thinking that people were like i was going to steal
34:38
stuff um because you know like i never i never knew what that was like to go into a
34:43
store and people just assume that i'm gonna do this that or other because of the way that i looked because of the
34:49
color of my skin because of the clothes i was wearing because of whatever you know those sorts of situations i've
34:54
never had that experience i don't know what it's like to have that experience um so i mean i think that's so so it is
35:01
an issue it's an issue to those people who who have to be on the other end of that and
35:06
so so i think i think it's just about trying to come to understand well like how then can
35:13
like i don't know it's like like how then can i have some compassion or understanding or
35:18
whatever that somebody else is having that experience um even though it's you know it's not impacting me because it
35:25
the fact that it's not impacting me like that's privilege that's something and that's something we all have privilege isn't necessarily a bad word right right
35:31
no sometimes it feels that way um and a lot of harm can come from privilege you know whenever anybody has
35:38
power over somebody else you know that's not you know that's icky that's a difficult
35:43
oh i agree i agree but does compassion have to look a certain way i mean i
35:49
can't be compassionate without responding in the way that's expected for me to respond to show compassion
35:55
i don't know because well i think part of it you know again it's i think it does come down to a little bit a little bit of this and that but you know cena i
36:03
mean you and i have we've had these conversations before and and you've made like i think you said something about
36:08
like you're too old and you're not like willing to learn the language or do the work but i said i don't know what my problem is but no but you have but you
36:15
but you have been like you have been showing up with me and you have been like you know what i
36:21
mean like you've been meeting my the things that i like like you've been doing your best to
36:28
meet those even if you don't understand them even if it's not like you're whatever you know so i mean i so you are
36:35
like you are doing those things because i because i love you right and
36:40
and i i want and i i want you to know that i love you and i'm just so yeah i know
36:47
but it was hard but it was hard for me to know that you loved me until you
36:53
started making the effort to call me bonnie violet and to you you know what i mean like and so those are this and and
36:59
that's i guess those are just the i don't know where i was going with that but i mean that meant the world to me
37:04
and that that kept me that kept me answering your phone call and wanting to spend time you know what i mean because
37:10
yeah you like made those little steps um there's a few comments that are coming up
37:16
oh go ahead go ahead i said i'm always willing to make make those steps again i wanna
37:21
i just wanna love people i might and i do have compassion for what people are going
37:27
through it breaks my heart to see what people are going through in all different types of scenarios
37:32
so yeah let's we should read some of these i think we got a whole do you want to read cece's statement i can't was
37:38
there some ahead of that cece finley says i'm married
37:44
i'm married to a pastor and i'm a crisis pastor in the deep south so i carry a deep privilege within me that's why it's
37:51
so important to face that privilege every day and do that's good wisdom
37:56
and this is the rest of it and oh and do everything i can do to keep space
38:03
that's good tina you've said they and them a whole lot you're doing it already
38:09
and i and i am trying i just don't want the pressure of meeting someone for the first time and and trying to say it
38:16
right and say it wrong if i get to know somebody i mean totally i want to respect who
38:21
they are i want to and and the only assumptions i have never come out of my mouth until i know somebody yeah yeah
38:28
when i think that's i mean and i think that's just you know like again like as you and i who are people who are trying to
38:35
to show up in places yeah with people different than us these are some things that we might want
38:40
to think about depending on like if you know depending on the group that we're going into like i might know if i'm
38:46
going into say a bunch of conservative christians and again this is just an assumption right you're good i might i
38:52
might decide you know me saying my pronouns or like whatever might not go so great so is that
38:58
something i need to like need to do i i don't know you know like i think but i would still kind of i
39:05
don't know yeah i think you should enter a room the way you want you know what i mean the rest of that is
39:10
for everyone to to to weed out it's so hard though like myself you know included there's a lot of i get that but
39:17
there is a lot of privilege to get to do that you know like to just show up in a room and be
39:23
like okay sure whatever happens happens i am who i am because that's not always a safe
39:29
it's not safe it's not safe at all but that's some of us that's the growth in it though
39:35
but more than just like um oh my god yeah but for everyone else
39:41
i i i know i i i try to i do that i've been in situations where i have to i know it's
39:47
different than the situations that you're in but i've just decided you know time is too blazing short let me just
39:54
tell you with all this stuff going on with kobit and with those all of us who have lost people that we just love so
40:00
much you know i'm sick and tired of forgiving my french footing around
40:07
and trying to make everybody comfortable and not being able to love people and to not be able to be
40:13
who i'm created to be and so when i go into a space i'm not going to be offensive
40:19
i'm not going to be boisterous and rude but when i come into a space i want to come as me
40:24
and i want to come and i want to i want to tell you my name i'm probably going to hug you if you
40:30
have a mask on don't worry i'll ask first if you don't have a mask on you're probably fair game
40:36
i'm probably going to if you stand next to me probably engage in a conversation no matter what you look like or where
40:43
you're from or how you smell even because that's how i want to enter a room
40:48
and that's how i want to be seen and if y'all have a problem with me then that is really not about me
40:54
if someone if i have a problem someone that loves me and has relationship we will
40:59
will tell me because those would be the only people i'd receive that from but man i'm tired
41:04
of being conscious of oh my shirt looks goofy oh my hair is not exactly right oh
41:10
i'm supposed to be this way because this is the kind of an event no i was invited to this event so i'm coming i'm coming
41:15
as me but it's that's like a that's like a you centered instead of like uh
41:23
maybe somebody else but would you that's a mimi me but would you want me to show up for
41:28
someone else would you want me to come up and not be all of who i am then i then i fit i'm
41:34
stifled no and i think part of it is to be you and what things can i do
41:41
oh to help other people have the same experience right yeah that's why like you don't enter in rude you don't enter
41:48
in boisterous you don't enter you know what i'm saying none of that i just like when i come i need to bring all of me or
41:54
or i can't really go you know and i and even even at church
42:00
people tell me you know you need to stop hugging people so much
42:06
i'm like well i'm really sorry i i can't be or when we have our little short greeting time it's short greeting
42:11
time so but anyway sorry i don't want to take this sideways
42:17
um kayla says hello dominic picture yeah and then this is
42:23
dominique so dominique is saying it's disrespectful to not address someone by their pronouns if i told you my pronouns
42:31
are she and her and you didn't respond if you would be uh so suspicious you'd be suspicious in
42:37
my mind so basically i wouldn't trust you i wouldn't feel comfortable around you if you weren't willing to
42:44
you know respond to me as i would like as i see myself and how i want you to see me
42:50
and christine says safe in quotes though is very different for me as a term than for my trans child
42:58
i have the privilege of knowing i might be uncomfortable but my trans child might be harmed in an unsafe space
43:06
that's that's so true very well said like that's kind of what i was trying to get at and
43:12
i think you were just able to like boom like put it right into perspective thank you christine
43:18
and then uh barry the gardener do you want to read that one i haven't read it yet but do you want to read it
43:25
okay if um can we you are at your oh when you're at your own church
43:30
you are in your comfortable place it is a place for you to focus more on the visitor and think about how welcome they
43:37
feel you're right yeah and again it's part about like the culture right it's like the culture of
43:43
that environment you know some environments it's totally cool to like maybe you hug everyone because you're at
43:48
church and you know everyone and that's a thing in some situations you know some settings they want like
43:54
i've learned to ask people you know i love hugging i love hugging people like
43:59
i'm a hugger um but i still will say do you mind like can i give you a hug is it okay if i give you a hug are you a hugger um or
44:07
you know and there are there have been times when i didn't want to be hugged too you know but um and those are there's just i think
44:13
there's discernment when we walk in a room but some of us some people i feel like can't read the
44:18
room it's like sometimes there's so many get it wrong every time just saying well i'm
44:24
not necessarily like with you but i'm always surprised when like because some folks we just don't know these social cues right we've we've never been in
44:32
these different environments we never knew that there might be a different way of doing something or that other people
44:39
might not do it the same way you know um but yeah i guess yeah check the room
44:44
right yeah yeah we are um right at our we are right at
44:49
45 minutes um so um thank you everyone who joined us today um if you're coming uh are you if
44:57
you're here with us live we are live every thursday at 5 30 p.m pacific
45:03
standard time um you can see us on youtube facebook or twitch during
45:08
that time or you can listen to us afterwards um wherever you listen to podcasts at a splinter or a splintered
45:17
splinteredgrace um and uh if you want to get connected with us
45:22
um or support the show you know there's links in the description we'd love to hear from you uh do you want to take us
45:28
out tina oh no i think you did a great job thank you thank you for this conversation today tina i know that uh
45:35
yeah i'm sorry i'm learning so much um not just from you but just from everyone who
45:41
participates in our conversation and i appreciate your grace because i'm still learning and i do have a desire to
45:48
i don't know just to be a blessing and and to get to know you guys so thank you for all that and i appreciate your
45:53
feedback and you know pray for me because i i want to
45:59
yeah i just want to be a blessing i mean i feel like you know you are you keep showing up you listen
46:04
you know you you share what's going on with you you know that's all we i mean that's all we both do with each with
46:09
each other so i just want to affirm that um a lot of people
46:14
don't show up um in a person like maya's life in the way that you do
46:20
and um i i just don't want you like i i just don't want to take that for granted and
46:25
i want you to know that i i see you and i i know you know what i mean like i get
46:31
it yeah yeah even if even if it might seem like you know what i'm grateful that we get
46:37
to go on this journey together because this is a learning learning journey for both of us so
46:43
and i'm grateful for it so anyway you guys have a great week we don't want to get sideways again so
46:50
thank you for joining us today on splendor grace take care and see you next week
46:56
uh where's that button here we go [Laughter] splintered grace podcast
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