Splintered Grace 💠

God Hates...

April 19, 2021 Bonnie Violet & Tina Frank Season 5 Episode 12
Splintered Grace 💠
God Hates...
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Show Notes Transcript

This is our FINAL EPISODE for SEASON 2
Here was an interesting discussion.  We discussed how being told that God Hates and how it effected us.  We also shared what the bible says, about He hates.  Feel free to be a part of our continued conversation.

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[Music]
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is [Music]
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will be
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hey everybody welcome to splinter grace it's monday monday monday yeah yeah hey i'm tina
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frank and i am a conservative christian mature woman most days um and i've learned
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that i enjoy painting rocks so i know yeah hi everyone i'm bonnie
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violet i'm a trans genderqueer drag spiritual drag artist and a chaplain
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um and yeah i i did a choreographed dance number which
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i didn't know i could do so well it was you're a dancer are you a dancer i think well it's so
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it's one of those things in practice we did really well but when we went to actually film it we we
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it was like we each had different moments but it's i think it turned out well i'm excited to see the videos
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so did you do your all your filming in one day yeah we did wow yeah wow
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yeah we did we did a dress rehearsal or rehearsal on saturday that we were
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mostly dressed and then uh yesterday we did like the the final shoot so wow so were you a guys outside i
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can't remember if you said you guys are doing in the studio or outside yeah we were we were outdoors there was the three of us and then there were
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three camera there were three cameras on us while we were doing the filming filming as well so i think it's really
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great we're excited about it were you guys in that fabulous park in san francisco
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no we were at a bart station in daly city so we were we were going for
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the more parking garage kind of kind of tickets so yeah we were in a parking garage kind
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of an abandoned or an empty parking garage at least well it's kind of cool it sounds like can't wait to see it
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i was watching i think i texted you uh was it called somebody feed bill
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and he was in san francisco and uh he was going through all these food places and the park and all that
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stuff i'm like oh my goodness one i want to eat there so next time i come we are definitely eating some of these places
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and then um he mentioned that the beautiful park i can't remember the name of it that you guys have is bigger than
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central park that's pretty amazing uh i wonder what park that would be maybe buena vista
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i don't know i don't know but it's like i i think it's the park that we had met in once before
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but anyway it was it was pretty awesome and of course how they do the filming nothing looks like it did
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when i was there so i'm like wait a second i missed that right anyway
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i'll just have to come back and see you for sure and experience some of that so i wanna i definitely have i made a list
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of those places that i want to eat awesome uh how was your weekend how are you i got a good weekend um
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we got to my husband was so excited he got to go to a car show took a couple of the son-in-laws and the
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grandkids and went to the car show they had a great time so that was nice being outside the
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weather's really great here right now before it gets too hot so they had a fun time and after that we spent the afternoon
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over at my daughter's house it's her birthday it's been a while since i celebrated a birthday with one
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of my adult children so it was a lot of fun had some burgers went swimming played
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badminton it was fun we had a great time sounds like that's a picture so nice
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um so so and it's our final episode it's not wow it is wild it's like
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where'd the last 12 weeks go right yeah and it's and it's not our
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final final just for this season you know yeah we're uh kind of doing these in 12-week
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portions so this was our second season we'll take a little break we haven't determined how long that will be but
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we're going to take a little break we'll talk about that a little bit i mean we could talk about it now i guess but
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um we're going to probably just take a little break and in the in between seasons we're also
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going to post like some we're going to be on some uh pod other podcasts being interviewed we were
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interviewed about forgiveness with bob kaiser a couple weeks ago we'll post that um if
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you folks have an idea of a podcast you think we would be good on um feel free to
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uh suggest us to the hosts um or if you think uh yeah and also if you
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have any ideas for us for next season we're playing with a lot of different ideas maybe even having guests or
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i don't know we're just kind of thinking how can we go to the next level with this so um we'll put some thought into that
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and we'd love to hear from you all on what you think as well that'll be awesome
5:20
so you've got some you've got some um individual things happening though don't you some other projects you're working
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on while we're having a break yeah yeah and if folks um are interested too yeah they could follow some of the
5:31
work that i'm doing in the meantime um i'm in the middle of doing a workshop um called lace it's a live stream workshop called
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lacing your narrative with the spiritual thread where i'm walking people through the process
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of seeing their understanding of god or their relationship with god
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spirituality all of that throughout their whole life how it changed what caused it to change what it is now
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what they want it to be and um i'm going just through this it's a live stream eight week process
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that you can participate live stream or you can just you know participate and start at any
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time that you want so it's just kind of an experimental uh thing to see how it goes and then i'm
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working on a trans spirit series where i want to interview trans folks
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and lace their narrative with the spiritual thread very much like i do my dragon spirituality series
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um and then i just started another podcast with um at the seas it's called at the ccc
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which is i saw that yeah it's a recovery focused um podcast where
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we talk about um all types of recovery and how folks recover from whether it's drugs alcohol
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overeating whether they do 12-step or they do harm reduction or they
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you know we're really wanting to try to create a space in which there are no outside issues
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and a way that we can hopefully bring more create better space for more people in recovery kind of
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focus on the things that might separate us um in the hopes that we'll become
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unified around it i enjoyed your first one uh your co-host lolo fighting yeah yeah lulu i'm sorry
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at least i know what day of the week it is this week right right yeah yeah lulu and bonnie violet so yeah yeah
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and i should have known that because i called me they had lulu all the time and i was like oh i remember that
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christmas anyway it's monday it happens it happens so um
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to get into our topic um our topic today is god hates which um i know it was kind of
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like ouch just to even say it or think about it but um one of the things that's really been on
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my mind is um well there's the relationship of god hates you know god hates god hates gay people god
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hates this and that which has been used in a way to kind of like clobber people and hurt people i think
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or some people have experienced it that way um so i kind of wanted to be able to talk about that a little bit i know you and i have our own relationship with
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that sort of phrasing and how it's kind of impacted our our thinking
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as well as um i've been noticing a lot of like just um folks trying to i don't know
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there are just some some things around um calling out other people too about their behavior
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that i just kind of wanted to talk with you a little bit about because i feel like sometimes it's not it's a little it feels
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mean-spirited even though it's not and i think that's also something that or it might not be maybe it is
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i don't know you never know someone's heart you know yeah i guess by how they present the
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information that they're they're sharing what did you um what was your um thought
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when you got that text hey what do you think about god hates this week's topic like well god doesn't hate anything it's like
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that's a random topic so i i so i think i text you back said i need to do some research on that
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is that what i said you were like can can i let you know tomorrow it's like it's like yeah so i'm like
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okay so i i just never think about god hating anything um you know as i've been a christian for a
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long time and the lord knows i've made my mistakes and did my and still do but uh
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i just never thought about god hating anything yeah yeah me either um but um
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you know the god hates message um kind of was out and about i don't feel like it's out
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there as much as it used to be but i felt like it was pretty prominent maybe say 10 years ago
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like the weather did a lot of damage it did a lot of damage exactly and i know um i know
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for for me you know i kind of got that message but i'd also like i'm good with god like like my
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relationship with the god of my understanding is has been all set for a while um but for whatever reason i still have
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like my understanding of christianity does not have that sort of language either so i was definitely um
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i don't know i found it harmful um but i know you had a response to it too when you
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started seeing it the the hate speech yeah yeah i don't know i don't think anybody
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likes to hate speech unless you're capitalizing on it which is unfortunate
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that people do that um so yeah and i don't think god likes all that either
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um there are some things sold as we found out as we did some research um so i did do some research and
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i found that there are some things listed in the bible that it says that god hates and i
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went further because sometimes i know that words can mean or take on different meaning but the word is hates and it is
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the way kind of hate that we were talking about is hate right right so those are those are some
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things that we can we can share those things um and in addition to um engaging on people's
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experiences yeah we would love to hear from folks um so if you have some thoughts on
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god hates whether you believe god hates or what you think god hates or if you just want to talk about it in
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general um or yeah even just what your thoughts were um when you when you read that or hear
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that um yeah well you know i'll just share the passage
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that i found because i was surprised you know yeah you always start with the google search i know and you know
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when you message me last night you said i found it there's some verses where it says god hates and i was
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like oh shoot i was like i don't know what to do with this yeah yeah
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so uh i started google and then i went to there's a lot of resources online so if
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you're ever looking for something in the bible google's a great resource just to pull up a bunch of scriptures if you want to
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go deeper than that there's a lot of tools out there one of the ones i like to use is the blue letter bible
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one of my friends turned me on to it and i like it and what it does is it lets me compare
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the translations to the to the hebrew so i can actually look up the
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hebrew meaning to the words and make sure that something's not being taken out of context which is what i thought
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hate is pretty aggressive words i thought that's got to be disliked you know it's got to be frowned
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upon you know whatever i didn't so when i looked but it was it was actually a hate so looks like we have a comment
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isn't it do you want me to first it's up to you what do you think you read the passage or yeah okay so anita woodward says good
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morning thanks for joining us too uh she said that that statement hits me on a personal level
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growing up with close family members always saying things like god will not love you if you dot dot
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or god hates little girls who aren't proper so many to list but they used it as a
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tool to control me with fear was not easy growing up with that hanging on me yeah yeah
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a lot of a lot of people grew up with the word of god being used as a tool to manipulate and to control that's
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unfortunate yeah i still see it used in that capacity today yeah it's like the fear of of hell or
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whatever it's just like and fear only lasts like fear only lasts so long um
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because once you go a while without having the impact of it you know you i don't know fear just goes
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away it's not a healthy or good way i think to i don't know to get a message across if you will but
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yeah yeah here's nothing well god is not a god of fear
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and he doesn't want to be scary he doesn't want you guys he doesn't want anyone to come to him out of fear
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he wants people to come to him out of love um so anytime i always if anything i'm
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fearful i know that's not god because god is a god of peace well and god often says fear not or absolutely yeah absolutely
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and so many times in the bible fear now yeah i know if i'm in fear that you know
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i there's some sort of like um you know some sort of like i'm not
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i'm not really trusting in in in god you know there's some part of me that doesn't you know has kind of
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started to take my own um will as they'd call
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so i don't necessarily agree i don't think that my will is any different than god's will you
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know like i believe we want the best we want the same for for me
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um i just don't always know how to to do that um i like i can't usually
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get that result on my own um that makes sense
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it makes sense like they're in alignment it's not like god has this way i have this way and we're fighting over
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like whose way it's like we both agree and we're both in alignment but i might fall short a little bit but
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we're like i feel like we're in the right in the same groove if you will yeah that's it see and i believe that
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god has for me far more than i can think or imagine
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so i don't want to stand in the way so if god's got a plan that's more than i can think or imagine
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knowing that he's a god of love man i want it i don't want anything that i want i want
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everything that he wants for me yeah so so yeah so anyway
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yeah my big thing with god i've been like i felt like you know i first came to the
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idea of god again um in recovery um and i got there out of a state of
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desperation like i got there at a state of like i needed help i needed assistance i didn't know
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how to get out of my situation god dod gift of desperation is something
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they speak of in recovery and a big part of recovery is there's at
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least in 12-step which is what i participate in there's a spiritual component to it it
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is a spiritual program so if folks aren't open to spirituality it's probably not a good program for them but it still might
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be but anywho through that process i got to
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see and form and create a god that didn't hate and a god that was accessible and free
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and loving and kind and there for my betterment um you know with love
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and all that sort of stuff for whatever reason i didn't have a god
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i didn't see god that way and i didn't experience god that way until i got into recovery and then i
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could really like begin to focus on what god was and not what god wasn't um and that
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helped me i think it liked well but i think i'm at a point now where it's like
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i and then so i got god in my life to increase my capacity to be in life well and be in life in the
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way that i wanted um but i still think from a space of like brokenness or emptiness
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um and i feel like now i really have a desire to have a relationship with god in which
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i am a whole person i'm a whole being i don't need a i don't need god for a crutch i don't
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you know what i mean it's like but i have a desire and i want god in my life um
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so it's from a state of desire and want versus like need or desperation
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which i still believe i need god but it's not like this i don't know like
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this i need it you know it's more of like i i want it there's more of a desire for it yeah you
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want to have a relationship i think is what you're saying right yeah sorry that's nothing to do with hate but i think it does talk
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a little bit about how to kind of having to have what that hate did and how it came out
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in my life and once i was able to kind of like work through that i'm starting to have a different result
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so what does it say in is it proverbs yep proverbs i'm going to
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read it right out of my bible because i don't have it memorized y'all so proverbs 6 is where i'm reading from
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and it's the old testament for folks who might not be aware yep and it's
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found right after the psalms if you're summoned through your bible and
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the reference that i had was started at verse 16 through verse 19. and i'm going to read
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that mine is a new american standard um i did also looked it up in the king
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james version newton james and again if you go out onto that resource you can see it the the hebrew
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and it'll take you all the places where it's at so all right so it says there are six
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things that the lord hates seven that are detestable to him
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eyes a lying tongue hands that shed innocent blood a heart that devises
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wicked schemes feet that are quick to rush into evil
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a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension
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among brothers so that's that's quite the list right it's quite the
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wording too yeah it is and and i know um i i don't i'm a word look i like to
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look stuff up because i think i have an idea of what some of those things mean but i really want to understand what it
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says and so for me i start with webster first and then i kind of go from there i did
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make some notes and i did look up some other ideas that people had and what those words meant so if there's any discussion we want to
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have about any of them i'll share my thoughts and someone else's thoughts so that you don't have to take mine
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as as gospel well and one of the things that i was thinking and um you know i was thinking hate like i
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feel like that's got lost in translation somehow you know like like or like or it's gotten
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like uh generalized or simplified maybe um because like the word love in my
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understanding in the bible there are lots of forms of love
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but i think but it's all kind of lumped in just love right so i wondered if there was kind of
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like if you will levels of hate if you will or like things that were
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you know like a different type of hate i guess uh versus it and so it got translated
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somewhere differently um you know i i think what's changed is our tolerance for it
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i mean i our tolerance i remember growing up mom used to tell me all the time don't you use the word hate
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that's a bad word that's just like those other cuss words yeah you know but we'd go to school and
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we'd use it and other kids said i hate you you know whatever um but i think it's just become
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something that we've been desensitized to unless it's at some extreme or we've got
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someone really focusing on it and and so that it so that it gets attention
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and but i think sometimes when we focus we're just spreading more hate it's like okay wait
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a second we got to take a step back and just and and not get caught up in all that
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so for i i think we've been desensitized to it just like lots of other things that we've been desensitized to as in as in
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we are calloused to hate or that we label a lot of things hate that might
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not be both i think i think we could be so callous like
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i'm just going to give you example y'all can be mad at me if you want to but it's the truth and we'll just work through it or you'll
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have to pray for me or whatever it is i don't want to have a discussion because i already know so when i start to hear someone spewing
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about how much they're hated or or whatever or whatever and it's all over the media i
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have to tell you i'm just like roll my eyes so i've been desensitized
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to what's what's what's happening because it's every every time i turn around being in
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the industry that i was i was accused so many times of being hateful and doing things because i
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hated people and and all those things and i don't know if it was because i was white i don't know if it was because i was a woman i don't
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know if it was because i was the manager i have no idea why it was and i don't
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and i feel bad for all those folks that they would feel that way but it desensitized me so that
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i just like oh i didn't want to hear it you know what i mean and then i think as kids you make it go
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ahead sorry so it's like an extreme that it's kind of such an ex extreme kind of thing that you're like
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whoa that's not me so it doesn't even make you open to maybe like is there something i'm doing
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you know like because it's so extreme it's like i don't i know i don't hate it yeah or and or because it's like
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i hear it everywhere every time i every time i turn around um there's there's a and i'm like oh my
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gosh i just i don't know if it's i don't want to deal with it i don't know if i just don't care i do care um but i when i want to care
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about something that i can make a difference in and so anyway i i think there's a big
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that's just my opinion so it doesn't have to be right it's just my opinion and i'm trying to not be unsensitive to
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things and try to hear things and gain understanding those things so i can make quality decisions and move
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in love and kindness and whatever i need to do but i think there's a lot of people that are like me or even people
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not like me that have been desensitized i don't know what else to do well and i wonder if there's like i
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don't know it feels like you know in so many other words and so many other experiences there's kind of
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levels or there's like gray area if you will okay um whereas i feel like hate just
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feels like a like it's just is what it is like period you know
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discussion exactly so i think but maybe maybe it would be helpful to
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realize that there are i don't know um that there are like
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levels of hate that just it just seems so interesting to think of it that way linda landa lakes is saying i think in
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some things hate is overused then there are real elements yeah yeah and i think those
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real elements get lost in all of that overuse and so people just become
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the only one to engage yeah it's almost like a it'd be i think because it is just like a word that's like it's just the one
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word and that's it i think if we were able to come up with or speak more specifically maybe like hate feels
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like a maybe like a general term if you will but if we could be more specific about
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the experience or what that is maybe that would i don't know maybe that would be helpful but i do think
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it is a little overused but again i think it's because it's a bla it's like kind of a
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black and white term it's not it is
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or at least our understanding maybe is maybe
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see so um did you want to go a little bit further with the what those yeah so let me you have
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i think all the the bible is inspired i just want to say that advocate but i do think there's a
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a law on the old testament side and there's a fulfillment of that law on the new
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testament side so the things that god hates when i was reading this these are things
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i already know that god doesn't want me to engage in right but i don't think when god hates that he doesn't love me
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anymore and so i think when we look at this word hate i think people read this and think that
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okay well god hates this he can't love but jesus filled in that space we have
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to remember and so there's forgiveness and we talked about that a lot when we were talking with bob and we talked about that a lot
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here also but so in the forgiveness aspect um there's not condemnation in in this
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these are things that god still wants to strive for and i don't know if you guys defined these the same way that i did
26:51
but do we want to talk about how we define these or is there even any reason to do that because i read it so yeah i guess i have a
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thought about that too so well one you know it's like god is love and you love and
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hate the same thing at the same time i think i think we can it can grieve our
27:13
spirit i can love the person but i can hate what they're doing and i think that's how god is i think
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god loves us and he still has a plan for us but he doesn't always enjoy the things that we
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just participate in or do especially if it's um well i feel fine for us i guess i feel
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like the god of my understanding would get all of this they would understand
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why we do what we do and why things are happening the way that they're happening and because of that
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all god could have is compassion and understanding and love like so because i feel like the way that
27:51
we remove hate sometimes the way i get rid of hate i hate i hate i don't even think like me
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i feel like i don't have hate in me because i think maybe because my thinking of it is so like
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severe um i don't remember where i was going to go with that
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i hate it when that happens i hate it right yeah maybe it'll come back to me maybe i
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didn't need to go there you know so i i do you think god disciplines us
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i'm just going back to some of the things that you were saying um i don't that he's just he's just gonna
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okay whatever you want to do is find me so just go for it i just love you whatever i don't think
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i don't feel like i feel like you know um no i don't know
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i just don't know that i feel like god hmm i've never ever thought about
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why god created you um like i don't know
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maybe a little bit yeah i mean i feel like god is still creating me so
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i feel like i'm still in that process of creation i agree with you
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i agree with you so i and i i and i i don't mean to be i just want to i because i all the time lord why did
29:23
you create me i know there's a purpose i believe that god created me for a purpose and so part of that discovery and
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becoming who i am i need some guidance from god and so i think god i don't know if
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discipline was the right word but god guides me by telling me no that's not where
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that's not going to take you where you want me to go no that's not going to take you to what i have purposed for you
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and then and the plan that i have for you and if i believe and i do believe because ephesians says so
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that if god wants to do something in my life more than i can think or imagine i want to try to do my best to do those
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things that he calls me to do and moves me around to do even though they're not comfortable for me
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right you know it's easy for me to stay in my one little corner and do nothing i could not leave my house every day
30:12
be just fine have all the groceries i want have all the air conditioning i need watch all the stuff i want on tv
30:18
and have no impact on anybody and be just fine that's not who god created me to be he'll love me if i
30:25
choose to do that but he's going to give opportunity for me to get out of the house and to talk to my neighbor he may even
30:31
have my neighbor knock on my door and i can choose to do it or not do it but i
30:37
i feel like there's a guiding and even a discipline and if i'm out over here doing something crazy
30:43
i think god will will do some things to to call me back and say oh don't do that that's not good for you
30:49
that's not going to benefit you to move you to where i have you to be so so i i mean it's a good conversation
30:56
we can have offline if you want some time but i understand what i understand what
31:01
you're saying like totally um and part of it is just yeah like
31:07
what is god and what isn't god is you know what i mean it's like it kind of gets down to all that adam says that um that um
31:15
i think this was in response to does god discipline us no god god gives us choices
31:24
which i i think isn't contrary to what you're saying i think it's just um a different way of
31:30
um i'm saying yeah i'm saying it yeah because i think oftentimes you know because if you think about either pain
31:37
or discomfort or even like you know the
31:42
that oftentimes trigger change you know like if god created everything
31:49
and pain is part of that god doesn't put you in pain
31:55
but you love it and be in pain right and that pain then i think
32:02
so that's for me i feel like the utilization of god helps me through that pain and
32:09
to heal from that pain and to hopefully not need to be in that pain again
32:14
that makes sense so i feel like god is like that tool that gets you through that um
32:21
i have a so in some way i don't think that god like said boom you're in pain you know so
32:28
that isn't an inflict pain at all exactly it's just something that happens um
32:33
it's just like they haven't said it's a choice that we make so god allows us to walk through the
32:39
consequences of the decisions that we make and he's just always right there with us like you just said gotcha
32:46
and uh anita says forgiveness saved me from hate once i learned that god didn't hate me i
32:52
was able to forgive myself and from then on i never had that hate in my heart
32:58
yeah awesome very well wonderful testimony yeah it made me think of what i was starting
33:04
to say earlier so if there was something that i did hate or something that i was really
33:10
unhappy with the more i could come to understand that situation whether it's the person the overall
33:18
circumstance the you know all that sort of stuff then i can let go of some of that
33:24
hate right where i think that's maybe where forgiveness comes into play or compassion or understanding healing
33:31
you know that sort of thing awesome great comments you guys thanks
33:37
so much for chiming in and and then adam says
33:43
bonnie has served others in many ways and continue to yes we do thanks thanks for that
33:49
encouragement adam some days it's uh harder than others huh yeah i just know
33:56
i i needed to hear that today in particular um
34:02
so whatever drew you to say that adam thank you very much appreciated right so
34:10
what does god dislike hate according to proverbs you did you want
34:17
to explain one of those a little bit more i mean how to do it like lying
34:24
killing killing devising wicked schemes that's a good conversation
34:30
cheating and stealing quick to rush into evil that's a that's a conversation
34:36
starter a false with false witness who pours out lies
34:42
and a man who stirs up dissension among believers
34:48
oh there's there's a abroad a broadcast are still pretty vague kind of like it's
34:54
still kind of left up to interpretation yeah yeah so i mean i don't know do you have
35:01
any thoughts on any of those
35:06
yeah it's all good yeah i mean i i mean i feel like it's it's kind of
35:11
like the common sense of it all to some degree like i don't think any of it's surprising uh
35:18
as far as like um if god hated you know
35:25
that those would be things that god god hated you know and i think the quick to evil would be this
35:31
idea probably would be the lack of connection with god which i think god probably wouldn't be happy with that you know guys i don't
35:37
think yeah well it's something that just i don't know i think it takes i don't
35:43
know yeah um i think i think that's good
35:49
into evil an opportunity to continue to do the things that we know we shouldn't be doing that's i think that that is yeah
35:57
and adam says god competes with evil love eventually prevails amen i've heard
36:03
you say that a lot too like it's not it's not our battle it's god's battle
36:08
you've said that a lot right oh yeah yeah thank goodness that's not my battle
36:15
yeah yeah that's good adam thanks for that so one of the ones that i know that i i
36:21
still struggle with is that i i guess it's the wicked scream schemes
36:27
but i don't know but i still sometimes have um negative thoughts um i still sometimes
36:35
go into a situation thinking about how it can benefit me and not necessarily everybody in the group
36:41
and so that's something i've been working on because i've always been one of my core values my for my personal
36:47
life is to never engage in something that isn't a win for every participant because if it's
36:54
not a win for me it's it's not i mean it's not a win for you it shouldn't be a win for me right with that so it's helped me a lot
37:02
to remember that it's one of those little cliches that i keep in my mind or one of those
37:08
conversation things that we had talked about last week but i struggle with that still because i
37:14
still want things to work out well for me but it does seem like in god's
37:20
understanding though it all makes sense like i know for us it's like what the
37:25
heck yeah and you know god's not going to condemn me for being self-serving above someone else he certainly is not
37:32
he's going to say okay honey we got to work on this and work through that work through that together so that i can renew
37:38
and not i don't want to do anything not intentionally but i think we have that defense mode
37:44
that we want to be in you know if we both need that 10 and i need that ten dollars more than
37:50
you need that ten dollars you know right so what can i do to convince that person to give me that ten dollars and
37:55
you not that ten dollars rather than how do we come together and each get five dollars
38:00
then we both have something instead of one of us having something and one of us having nothing
38:06
you know what i mean yeah so so those are those are things that i still work on and i feel
38:11
like those are the kinds of things and some of these are black and white but these are things that god is talking about
38:17
um and falls under some of those evil ways and some of those self-serving ideas and
38:22
and prideful hobby things you know yeah adam says we can take too much on
38:28
sometimes and i think that's like in response to what god can do and what we can do i guess
38:36
but yeah and i don't know for me i have a really hard time if to personify god and the way that i say
38:44
that is for like god to have emotions for god to have things like us
38:51
doesn't that to me it feels like that falls short like i feel like there's like god has an
38:57
understanding and a way of being in a way of existing that might not have our vocabula but you
39:02
know what i mean like it might i don't think it's person i don't think it's personified so
39:08
you know like i think to person to personify god is to limit god i
39:14
understand that's how we can kind of understand god and that's how we translate
39:20
god in our human life if you will but i just feel like god is beyond that
39:27
so this is a personal question so choose not to answer it if you don't want to but i'm asking because i'm curious
39:33
so how do you see the role of god jesus and the holy spirit thing
39:39
well i think you know for me like i i think that well i guess you said god jesus and the
39:46
holy spirit so i think jesus is like for me i feel like that's an example
39:52
of how how humans can live out their life in a way in which god intended maybe or
40:00
would get us a good experience maybe i believe the holy spirit is that which connects us that's what's
40:06
what's in between us that's what you know it's the essence it's the the thing that breathes life into us
40:13
it's the thing that animates us um and moves us through life you know it's like the um
40:20
it's kind of like the you know the strings on a puppet and not that we're not that god is a
40:26
tear but just in that sense of like being lifted and elevated by the spirit so i think the spirit is what moves through
40:32
us and around us and in us um where does that spirit come from
40:40
i don't know okay yeah like i mean i could call it god i could i could say
40:46
yeah it's god or it's you know what that um how god uh
40:52
has action or moves you know what i mean like it's the movement of god the work of god
40:58
if you will whereas like god to me feels more grounded more more tangible more stuck in place if
41:06
that makes sense um yeah that's cool
41:12
that's interesting i'm just i was just curious because i we had never really talked about this before yeah well yeah and you know i'm in such
41:20
a i've i've been um in this space too where like because i've been through my lacing your
41:26
narrative through like with a spiritual thread workshop series i've been really
41:31
spending a lot of time thinking about all these little things and the more that i think about all of the
41:38
um the little specifics and the details then the further i want
41:45
like i almost i don't say i want to get further from god but i it starts things start to fall
41:50
apart um when i when i look too close um oh like it's better like for me i
41:59
feel like like i complicate it i make it oh i don't agree with that complicated so my
42:06
understanding uh complicates it and creates it and puts it in a way in which it's like too
42:11
much whereas if i just have a bigger picture say god is love you know that's a bigger picture right
42:18
that's like love and that plays out in a lot of ways but if i say like well god didn't love when this happened
42:24
or how where was god's love and this and that you know then like to me i feel like then that's when it's like well
42:30
yeah you know i i agree with that that's very good i guess yeah yeah okay yeah
42:37
those are those moments where you have to just uh stand on the truth that god is love even though it doesn't feel like love to
42:43
you the way we want to engage in love we have an idea of how we want to engage in love and when it doesn't feel like
42:49
that we try to think that god doesn't love us or whoever doesn't love us
42:55
so yeah yeah but i think you know i think there's oftentimes you can um
43:01
like i i was watching something recently where um you know i think there are things
43:06
that happen in life that cause us to really question our understanding of god and life and spirituality um and
43:14
sometimes that could be like a death of a loved one that you know like around some sort of pain or whatever we're like
43:20
how could god be in this or how can god be a part of this and and we believed maybe in god's world
43:28
or in a world in which god was in control these sorts of things wouldn't happen and sin so then those things happen and
43:34
then we don't believe that god is exists anymore potentially
43:40
rather than changing our understanding um of all that so that there is still god
43:46
and you know what i mean i think i know what you're trying to say yeah um
43:52
god is not in everybody's world so god's a gentleman and unless we ask him to participate in
43:58
our lives he's not going to there's consent yes so you know there are people that that are choosing
44:06
to not have god in their world um he's not there because they don't want
44:11
him there so god just doesn't control the world because he can he only wants to be a
44:18
part of the world of those who want him to be and that's one thing i love about god he's a gentleman
44:24
he doesn't force his way into my life and dictate the life that he wants me to have he allows me to settle outside of his will
44:32
he allows me to find grace and mercy when i make a mistake although these are things that he
44:38
doesn't enjoy or he hates or he doesn't even hoping i don't experience in my life he
44:43
covers it because he is love and wants to draw me close so i have god in my life and so i know
44:51
no matter what happens i know god is there but there are folks that are living in this world
44:56
without god um in it and it's it's it's sad because you're
45:03
right they don't they haven't even allowed god to be a part of their world but here god has to take the blame
45:10
for everything that's happening to them when they've not even allowed him to be a part of what's going on so that he
45:15
couldn't participate and bring comfort couldn't participate and bring understanding
45:20
or protection or whatever that looks like yeah i think one of the magics about my
45:26
experience with god though is um you god can exist in your past
45:36
like you can you can see god like god can become part of your past in a way
45:43
that changes it i guess and then in some ways it's like god was there all along but not really until you like you said
45:50
consented or saw or chose it to see it so i i definitely
45:55
think that that's the magic and i think that's the idea of the story of the prodigal son right where the um i don't know where the kid would
46:03
that was there all the time doing all the work like to get from his father what was his
46:08
or whatever and then the other one goes away and just does all crazy and whatever and then comes back and still gets all the
46:13
goods um you know like god comes into our life when god comes into our lives and for
46:20
some of us it's you know it's a different states stages of our life um and i guess how we experience
46:28
that might be different but in the end do we all still get
46:33
the goods so to speak
46:39
working toward like heaven i guess right so but what good so the the that's that example that you
46:44
gave is a great example but the son that stayed home didn't have the goods because remember he didn't even
46:50
ask if he could kill a spot uh a calf he and his father said you could have done
46:56
this whenever you wanted to right but he didn't ask he harbored all this frustration and all this whatever
47:03
towards his brother and he didn't so he didn't have the goods he was miserable he was jealous um he was overworked
47:11
he only had eyes for the um uh tangible right good so he didn't get
47:18
the goods he may have had some money right yeah i think that's just what it yeah yeah
47:24
yeah so so yeah there's there's i guess we have to each decide um
47:33
i want to be what kind of a life we want to live and does it want to be a life full of
47:38
pursuing the things that the world has to offer or do we truly believe that there's something
47:43
after that and we're going to pursue that and and i believe that there is
47:49
something after and i do want to pursue eternity and not just what's available to me in the world
47:54
when i read my bible it says all this stuff's going to pass away and i don't want my life i don't want to
48:02
think that the day i'm in the ground that's it right that's it what what why live then if my only
48:08
outcome of my life is to take some fun pictures and to have someone tell a funny story about me and
48:14
then get eaten by worms in the dirt that's not enough for me yeah you want
48:19
something more i think most of us do yeah um just to get to a couple of the comments so that we haven't to yet
48:26
sorry that's okay no uh cindy says it seems a lot of those things that god
48:32
hates um come alongside the ten commandments
48:37
and then um adam says we should be focused on the goods we have
48:42
or can work towards not what we are going to get at the end of life what is it she shouldn't we shouldn't be
48:50
focused on the goods we have or can work towards not what we are going to get at the end of life
48:56
we need to make life possible and positive in the here and now
49:01
yep that's a good thought that's a lot of what we just said with
49:06
uh when you were re-explaining the the prodigal son story
49:13
i think that idea all those things go ahead i'm sorry no go ahead all those things
49:20
god's already provided for us so my my hope is and i it is eternity
49:28
so i don't have to worry about all those things that we worry about all the time because god says he's already covered it
49:34
philippians says that he's provided and in every interpretation i've ever looked at the bible back into
49:40
the hebrew provided is past tense he has provided everything that we need according to his
49:48
riches and glory not mine his so if i believe that as a christian and i do i identify as a
49:54
christian so i'm a christian i choose to believe that i believe that so i want to live my life like that
50:01
so that doesn't mean i'm going to eat beef wellington every day of my life right but i know that i'm going to have
50:07
what i need to eat i know that i'm going to have what i need to wear i know that i'm going to have what i need to get ready to go so that i can
50:12
fulfill the purpose that god has for my life which may be way different than the purpose i had never envisioned
50:19
myself in a situation like this with you bonnie never was this even on my radar so i
50:25
believe this is something that god had intended for us even though it wasn't on my radar wasn't
50:30
something that i pursued was it something i tried to make happen or or anything like that i'm blessed
50:36
that you would include me but it was not something that was on my radar yeah and and for me i definitely
50:42
have an understanding of like that's like oh that's what sometimes i want to label god it's like
50:47
when things add up and make sense in a way that i couldn't have manufactured yes or came up with and i'm like oh
50:53
that's god like just definitely a good way you know like that's a god the god
50:59
things in recovery a lot of people call that a god shot um so adam also says i can't comprehend
51:07
what it means to die and what i'm going to get in the next life i want to make what i have now
51:12
good i can't control what is next i think that's definitely what i that's
51:18
how i live yeah i think making what you have now good is amazing and and as you
51:26
if you read your bible that talks about what eternity looks like um but but that said you know god
51:33
already died so our inheritance is available to us today and so by understanding god's concepts
51:39
now that peace that comes knowing that those are things that i don't have to fret about
51:46
and i just have to work on me you know i just need to have a kind loving heart
51:52
i need to desire to serve the people that god's put around me to be available to walk through the
51:58
doors that he's opened me and knowing that i don't own anything everything
52:03
tangible that i have is not mine it's god's and so if i'm willing to use it to
52:10
be kind and loving and for those purposes i think that that's that's what our life is about and so
52:18
yeah adam i think understanding and utilizing your things for good now is great but don't i mean there's hope for
52:25
eternity and um even if we if you read it it'll it'll explain some
52:31
of it yeah yes yeah
52:36
i think yeah i know you said that i know i've said this a lot of times but i think that um
52:43
like i know i have an experience with god i know i have a connection with god i know i know i know some
52:51
right we can have to click that button now because you said that
52:56
right i said oh no had earlier so i think that's we had to click that button
53:02
anyway one of those those e uh buttons yes
53:07
yes sorry some people will probably just put an e
53:13
on us just because i'm in drag so that's about them
53:18
right right yeah um yeah so i don't remember where i was going with all that sorry
53:25
like i know some yeah it's like i have an experience with god and i've a lot of people i know have had this
53:31
experience that they so often label it god they might call it other things that you know there's a i think words are
53:38
they're very they can be very personal and our understanding of words are also very
53:43
different too so what i struggle to is
53:49
find the words uh that speak to speak fully
53:56
to that experience and that knowing that has been in me you know
54:03
since i can since i can't even remember [Music]
54:09
that's yeah yeah and so i think that's why because of that sort of thing i know that i have a hard
54:14
time being a part of of anything um i can pick it apart and i
54:20
can find something wrong to cause me to not be a part of it that's why i'm not
54:27
that's why i have a hard time in relationships with people and i have a hard time joining things
54:32
and you know like i know that i know that that is my limitation and
54:40
and it causes a discomfort at times but i also there's also a lot of benefit
54:48
that i get from having that sort of process too in the sense of there's an
54:54
expansion that happens for me um i think that'll get me to that space
54:59
of um where i don't know the space of heaven if you
55:04
will um adam says jesus provided a clean
55:10
slate for all the all the many questions we had before jesus and who believes in jesus
55:17
will have eternal life that's true that's what the bible says it has
55:23
nothing to do with anything else right that's right
55:29
we have five minutes so we're we're like done oh wow we are
55:35
done with season two oh my goodness all right well i just want to say thank you to cindy and adam
55:42
and there was linda yes mix was here earlier engaging with us
55:49
because that definitely helped with the conversation i enjoyed the conversation very much
55:54
right we're like yay god hates talk
55:59
yeah i think it was a good starting point i i really um you know like i just i'm i so love that
56:06
i have you in my life tina oh i feel the same way for this i mean this podcast is beautiful and
56:12
wonderful but the conversations that we have outside of this and the way that you show up for me
56:19
um is just i cannot i cannot put it into words how um
56:27
how much i appreciate you and i feel you with me um it's good
56:34
but i feel your love with me um and not not any sort of judgment or you know you know i don't
56:40
know i just i just want you to know that i feel it and i appreciate it and um i'm glad that i have it in my
56:46
life well thanks for sharing that with me because that's the desire of my heart
56:52
is to just love you and to give you space to be the amazing person that god
56:58
created you to be so that's the desire of my heart so i'm grateful that we're on this journey
57:03
together because like i said it was not on my radar right so but i'm grateful and i'll be
57:09
here as long as you want me to be or we'll see what god does
57:14
right that's it so real quick i know we got to go because you don't like to edit
57:19
but don't forget you can find bonnie on some of her other platforms
57:24
as a queer chaplain and there's a lot of great stuff out there under there you should check that out i started a new project called i
57:31
identify as christian it's just coming up so bear with me but engage with me there it's a small
57:37
project i'm working on now i'm going to be a video series i've got a facebook uh persona you can encourage me there
57:44
follow me there i'll listen to all my random crazy thoughts there if you'd like and hopefully have some
57:49
conversations with me there as well so that you can get to know each one of us a little bit more
57:54
before our next season starts so happy monday everybody thanks for joining us yes and one quick message from another
58:02
favorite person i always love hearing from her her name tina yes tina says thank you
58:09
for having the conversation many need this and i hope they have been given the opportunity to listen
58:15
and or participate thank you all so much we look forward to seeing you
58:21
next season um i guess be well and god bless maybe
58:29
all right see everybody i don't want to go i know i know
58:36
splintered grace podcast is brought to you by a queer chaplain
58:43
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59:07
sandov the chasm between us rest in peace
59:22
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